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any real graphic designers willing to help me?

Discussion in 'Entertainment and Technology' started by 507bro, Jan 6, 2010.

  1. 507bro

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    soo i'm making a flyer thing for BPA and i need help. Our theme
    this year is Washington Dc. I'm only in highschool and my graphic
    design skill kinda suck lol. I need a way to jazz up my flyer idk how
    to do it, any sugestion? I'm using lame fonts because idk what font
    to use that ties in with celebration, which is my theme.

    heres my flyer btw, it's not done so yeah

    http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/3922/bpagraphicscopy.png
     
  2. adam88

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    Not bad. A critique:

    "Lame" fonts... well, you chose perfectly suitable and readable fonts, as opposed to hyper, ADD-addled free novelty fonts. Being "Washington" themed, a serif font like you chose is great. I'd just bold it. Or maybe switch to Garamond Bold, with Garamond Italic in a larger size for the bottom bit of text. That would work well, I think.

    Tracking... please don't space your letters so close together, especially with lower-case!! The default kerning tables know what they do!

    Alignment - The titles, body copy and the type "2011" should all align centre to each other, to keep a vertical flow down the page

    BPA logo- is hugging the lower right. He needs space away from the edge! :slight_smile:

    Those are what I can see off the top of my head. Be sure to let us see your second rough. :slight_smile:
     
  3. zzzero

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    Did you make that background photo?
    So being a graphic design student who works in the field as well as someone who knows nothing about what you're advertising, i cant tell what you're trying to get me to attend... or what it is at all. You need a little more information than your providing, or if you can use imagery to communicate what when where why and how, that would be good too. It's clearly like a new years type thing (atleast the way i see it now) So why did you choose the typeface you chose? You should choose a typeface that matches the period your flier is about, and since it's clearly about 2011, use something more modern, like Futura or Helvetica always looks nice, there are others that you can play with as well. Or if you want it to be an elegant event, you can use Didot or Bodoni. Also, since i dont know what the event is, is it some kind of government thing? Because when I see that building, I immediately think of the government.
    Right aligning or left aligning text will always look better than centering text in most cases. It looks more like it's a well thought out placement. I like where you're going with the 2011, though it's unneccesary.
    You really need more information before I can give you a lot of sound advice.

    ----------

    NEVER BOLD SERIF FONTS! That, my friend, is a type crime. Never bold serifs, never stretch text, never stack text (but you can rotate the baseline so the text reads like it normally would only sideways), never but two spaces before a sentance, and for the love of god dont use papyrus(unless you're a womans day spa) or Comic Sans.

    Sorry I have problems with some things he said, as far as tracking goes, to be honest the kerning IS really tight but i'm guessing it wasnt really messed with. The default kerning and leading is usually pretty bad.

    I should tell you the reason for not using bold serifs. Bold serifs are unnatural. When those typefaces were originally created there was no bold version of them. Also, bolding serifs is just weird. please dont do it.

    And that logo is not going to print because it's so close to the edge but you have that same information elsewhere in the flyer, so I suggest using the logo where you used the name in the flyer, instead of having it twice.
     
    #3 zzzero, Jan 6, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2010
  4. Z3ni

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    From a strangers point of view I think it looks good! so far =]
     
  5. Chip

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    As a non-designer, but someone who works with a lot of designers, I think that it's an excellent, appealing flyer. I agree with Tswyter that the flyer doesn't have enough on it to tell me what the conference is about and why I'd want to attend, so I'd suggest adding a tagline or a sentence that describes succinctly who and what the conference is for.
     
  6. adam88

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    I'm sorry but I'm gonna have to disagree. First thing I learned when I was in school were the "rules" of type. Second thing I learned was exactly how and when to break said rules of type. Not even the biggest type nerd will care if you use ITC Garamond Bold. Hell, once I took Garamond Bold and stroked it by half a point to make it bolder. As long as it works in the design, you can do whatever you feel.

    Those lower-case characters definitely DO look as if someone applied 15 to 45% negative tracking, but it could be the low-res image.

    I agree with your suggestion of moving to sans type though- Akzidenz Grotesk, Futura, Frutiger or Helvetica can all work to get away from the "gubmint" feel of the pamphlet. Also, I agree that flushing the text right or left would be good to try too.
     
  7. zzzero

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    oh god you STROKED a typeface? Really? C'mon now you're just destroying it. Sure using like ITC Garamond Bold can work in some places, though i'm still against it. My theory is if it needs to be bold, then it needs to be sans-serif. But stroking any typefaces is 100% crazy, i'm sorry. when you stroke the typeface it loses the little details that make that typeface what it is. It's more of a personal moral problem, nothing against you if you can make it work. To me it feels like destroying something that so many people have worked to perfect. Nothing personal though. My type teacher was more into type than anyone I have ever met, so these things are kind of ingrained in my head now.
     
  8. Jiggles

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    I'm of the If it looks good that's what matters school of thought. Who cares about these rules and such. The OP has the basis of a good flyer.
     
  9. zzzero

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    Well see I'm into web design. With web design you have to pay close attention to the rules and everything that goes on in the background of the design. So for me, these things matter because i'm just programmed to think about the background of everything
     
  10. adam88

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    I do the same for print as well. However, my rules-that-I-will-never-break tend to be stuff like "never have more than 300% colour on any one spot", "always check CMYK separations" and "always be OCD about linked/embedded image files". :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

    The client never worries about whether Garamond is stroked or not, but if the printer sends your file back they most certainly will worry.

    EDIT: You are right about type-on-an-image, and the OP chose a good one to lay type on top of. Large areas of flat tone=good. A jungle shot would = bad. Though to be more legible, the type that's on top of the fireworks at the top should be either given a box of flat colour behind or moved off the fireworks.
     
    #10 adam88, Jan 6, 2010
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  11. Beachboi92

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    i like it and im no professional but i like to think im pretty good with art related stuffs. The one thing i would say is there seems like a lot of negative space and maybe making it shorter or landscape would do something better for it. Also some of the firework effects are very well done where others seem a little sloppy or like they dont fit in. But in general it sort of reminds me of the National equality march posters :wink:


    scratch landscape idea prob just shorter would be good or finding a way to make the letters less apart as you read down
     
    #11 Beachboi92, Jan 6, 2010
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  12. 507bro

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    BTW the flyer is not done and i need to add more info on it, it's an advertisement for our National completion event held in Washington. We had to pick a theme and a slogan, mine is about celebration and yeah. the lame font was there just because i couldn't find anything that fit the theme.

    I have alot of negative space and idk what to do with it lol and the flyer has to be 8 by 10
     
    #12 507bro, Jan 6, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2010
  13. adam88

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    8"x10" is a strange size to do a flyer... maybe it's more of a card or insert, then? If you have serious amounts of body copy, a white text box would be appropriate as white on black is hard to print well (black ink seeps into white areas so fonts need to be slightly bolder - the semibold weight might as well be made for this purpose). Also, extra visible size is important when doing signage, which is my main work at the moment. If the text I vector output to a vinyl plotter requires extra size when outputting to get the empasis just right on the sign face/vehicle lettering, I'm not afraid to use the offset path command in Illustrator to increase the weight of a font artificially. In these cases, total effect and impact is more important than precise font reproduction - in extreme cases, I've had to outline and individually reposition letters for spacing, and welded script font letters together for vinyl cut paths.

    Wow, that was the most graphic-design-nerd I've gotten in a while. I need a smoke. :lol:

    Seriously though, typophiles aside when it comes to graphic design as a career the number one reason for having the job is your ability to solve your client's problem. They need to portray information of some sort, and you have to find a way to do it while attempting to make it look somewhat stylish after all the revisions they make you do.
     
  14. 507bro

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    #14 507bro, Jan 6, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2010
  15. zzzero

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    Ok, so one thing i'm noticing that I cant seem to understand is the blue to black gradient you have going on at the bottom of the page. Personally, I just dont like it, I dont see it being necessary. I'd go with a straight black.
    Also, what I was saying about the poster before. The little logotype you have for Buisness professionals of America (which you probably didnt make but seriously needs to be reconsidered if you did, no offense) and the "Buisness Professionals of America National Leadership Conference" seems redundant. Why not just add "National Leadership Conference" onto that logotype you already have. It just seems odd to me to include that then say it again in the flyer.

    As far as the size, I'm assuming you're not the one cutting the flyer and they're probably being cut by some machine somewhere. So I say 8 x 10 is a great size. 8.5 x 11 kinda sucks. The paper size matters too and when people are handed an irregular size of paper they're more likely to look at it and find it intriguing. That's just my personal experience with odd sized paper.

    I dont think you need the black stroke on the "2011" It's big enough as it is, well over an inch in height so it will read when you print it, that I can guarantee.

    And I know we said it already, but can you atleast try a version with a sans serif typeface. (And Adam, please use the correct wording as it's driving me nuts lol. A typeface and a font are not neccessarily the same thing. A Typeface is the style of type, a font is a specific branch of a typeface such as italic, roman, etc...) Sorry lol, i'm easily bothered when people say font when they really mean typeface.

    Consider:
    Helvetica
    Futura
    Fruitiger

    I think the illustration you're using is great, just work on moving those elements around. Also, I still have no idea where I go in washington for this event... but i'm sure you were given the body text and stuff, if this is all there is, i'd ask for some kind of description or atleast a time and place for the event. And I said it before and i'll say it again, Centering everything on a page looks cheesy to me. Try moving some of the elements around, you've got some great black space that you can play with

    ----------

    Also, you can see in this example why I think it's wrong to stroke a typeface. If you look at the thicks and thins in "Washington, DC" you'll see that the thins get very very thin and might have some trouble when it comes to printing, especially considering there's black surrounding them... Also, it looks cheesy. White text should suffice, and that's why the sans-serif's I named would work better, there is no stress (thicks and thins) and it will be a lot easier to print.
     
  16. adam88

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    And believe me, I mean "font" in my last post. "Font" also refers to the physical matter of the typeface, the box of lead type or phototype film or the folder of vector postscript data that your computer uses. In many cases, font and typeface may as well be synonymous. If I were discussing the aesthetic merits, though, I would refer to it as a typeface.
     
  17. zzzero

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    I respectfully disagree, though they're referred to as fonts on the computer, it is incorrect. It ought to be referred to as typefaces. Because it is a collection of typefaces, which are broken up into different fonts. Plus, Font is such a dumb sounding word =P
     
  18. adam88

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    Wiki article on "Font".
    Note the origin of the term as a case of metal type in a particular typeface, size, and weight (and sometimes italic).

    When I talk of editing or using a font, I usually am referring to just that- a particular weight and style of a typeface.

    Garamond Roman is a completely different font from Garamond Italic. Heck, it might as well be a different typeface, if not for the fact they were made to work together.

    Garamond as a whole on my computer is referred to as a font family, and is composed of a bunch of fonts. The family is composed of weights, character variations and styles such as roman, book, bold, semibold, light, italic, bold italic, old-style figures, etc. Sans-serif font families can get even larger with extended/condesnsed variants.

    Garamond as an aesthetic, artistic concept is a typeface.

    Anyways, this is how I was taught and two years in the industry haven't proven them wrong so your milage may vary. *shrugs*
     
  19. zzzero

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    Ok, so I understand what you're saying but you are slightly wrong. Yes Garamond Roman and Garamond Italic are fonts, this is true. However, They are both within the typeface of Garamond. If you think about letterpress, each font has a drawer, and usually the other fonts that are within that typeface are also in the same area. Font Family is just a way of saying Typeface without actually saying it because it would confuse non-designers. Plus the computer filing system was not created by designers, and I wouldn't expect a lot of non designers to consider using the word typeface.
    That's all I was saying.
    Yes Artistic concept IS a typeface, but that's what the whole group is called... Like Univers for instance, it has like 44 different fonts. Univers is a typeface, Univers Heavy Extended is the font. And normally the font also includes the point size of that typeface.
    I understand that's precisely what you were referring to but you DID use font incorrectly earlier. I understand it's not a big deal to a lot of people, but personally I would not use the incorrect wording if I knew the correct wording, it just seems unprofessional.
     
  20. 507bro

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    just telling you guys this is the logo that won last year's event

    [​IMG]

    so don't get worked up because most of the graphic design in
    the event is pretty cheesy