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Want to be a novelist, but don't know if I'm any good!

Discussion in 'Entertainment and Technology' started by Fiender, Feb 17, 2008.

  1. Fiender

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    I've been working on a novel since last September, and I'm nearly finished but my friends and family have been avoiding reading it. I seriously need some opinions on the story, my writing style, everything basically.

    I was hoping some forum-goers here would be interested in reading some of it and giving me their opinions. Now for obvious reasons I will not disclose the whole book, but I will post the first chapter. It's a dark fantasy story BTW. Since there is too much text to be included in the post, I've uploaded the file for download.

    Click here

    Please check it out. I'd really like to know if there are things in my style that need to be changed. It will be greatly appreciated if you pulled no punches when posting what you think of it.
     
  2. Astaroth

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    I will take a look at it for you, and I promise I won't pull a single punch. Just be ready to take what you want and throw the rest away. And don't take anything I say personally. I've been writing for years and would like to think I have a decent grasp on what is good literature and what isn't, and the last thing I want to do is say "Oh, it was nice. It doesn't need a single change." Because the only thing that's going to come from that is that when an editor reads it, he or she is going to surprise you. No matter how foolproof your manuscript is, they'll find plenty to tear apart. :icon_bigg It'll be up to you to keep a thick skin and accept what they say as solid advice from a profession that knows what they're talking about.

    Anyway... I'm going to read it now. I'll post once I'm done with a full critique. I'll try to at least be nice :lol: But I won't pull punches. *devilish grin*
     
  3. Blaz

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    The trick is the same as if you were drawing a masterpiece. It should do more than tell a story, it should come from within itself. Your characters should do what they want, not what you want.
     
  4. Blaz

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    You can't forget that the novel is a living thing too, it grows and morphs with time.
     
  5. Astaroth

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    I hate to say it, but I actually don't have Microsoft Works on this computer, so I won't be able to read it in that format. If you want to copy/paste it into WordPad or Notepad, I can read those from here. Otherwise, I'll have to get back to it once I get on my Microsoft-friendly computer at home. Sorry.
     
  6. Rizpaz

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    It's not working... :frowning2: Says the file is "temporarily unavailable".
     
  7. Fiender

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    Ok, sorry but the site I chose to host the file was unreliable.
    Here's a different Link:

    [​IMG]
     
  8. divinity1618

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    That link isn't working for me, maybe bc I have a Mac?
     
  9. Fiender

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  10. Louise

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    OK third try lucky, I've got it now. I will read it tonight or in the next few days and get back to you. Don't worry I will be brutally honest... kind but honest. :thumbsup:
     
  11. Rizpaz

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    Cool, got it. I'll get back to you in a bit.
     
  12. Rizpaz

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    That was... dark. But very good! My applaudez! :eusa_clap
    I only noticed one mistake, and that was when you used trifle as an adjective.
     
  13. Astaroth

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    Just a preface warning, I'm a grammar Nazi. If you don't want to worry about grammar and spelling errors during your first draft, then skip all the quoted portions below and jump down to the bottom of the post for the comments about the story itself. A lot of my first drafts are filled with mistakes, so don't feel discouraged. :icon_bigg The important thing is that you've got your idea down on paper, which is the most important thing for now. So, I'll start with the grammatical stuff now and get that over with. Then we'll move on to the story itself.

    Unnecessary Commas

    All of the commas in the quotes above need to simply be removed. The reason is the same for almost all of them: they are creating unfinished clauses. If the phrases on both sides of the comma don't make a full sentence by themselves, then you've broken this rule (although this rule is very tricky and has many exceptions). The only way to really get this rule down is to study how commas are used in published books.



    NEED COMMAS

    Add a comma before "but."

    Add a comma between "sudden" and "loud."

    Add a comma after "said."

    Change any punctuation at the end of a quote - but before a dialogue tag - to a comma if it's not a ? or !

    Add a comma between "long" and "black."



    RUN-ON SENTENCES

    Change the comma to a semi-colon

    Change to "She poured it into the bowl and filled the bowl with milk from the refrigerator. Then she sat down at the table, pulling a spoon from the cupboard, before closing it and turning on the television." or something similar

    Change to "He put his shoes on and walked into the kitchen, sitting down with Stacy" or something similar



    SPELLING ERRORS

    It should be "shone," not "shined."

    It should be "Their," not "There."

    It should be "get therapy"

    It should be "sole," not "soul."

    It should be "picked up."

    It should be "break," not "brake."

    It should be "feeling," not "felling."



    SYNTAX ERRORS

    It should either be "knew the purpose" or "knew its purpose."

    Drop the "and."

    It should be "Skip ahead thirteen years - through high school and college - and you would find Michael and Stacy living together."

    It should be "a man holding a clipboard inside asked" or "a man inside, holding a clipboard, asked."

    It should be "He walked across the road where he'd almost gotten hit by the van" to avoid confusion of him maybe almost being hit by a second van when you obviously are referring to the near-collision earlier in the chapter.



    REDUNDANCIES

    "Years ago" and "in the past" are the same thing. Get rid of one of them.

    Drop the second "the news" because we know that's what you watch on the news channel.



    GENERAL RULES FOR DIALOGUE

    1. Make sure that any tags are appended with commas when dialogue follows them. Example: The receptionist asked, "Do you know who's interviewing you?"

    2. Make sure to separate out EVERY piece of dialogue by a new person with its own paragraph. If Michael and Stacy are speaking, each person gets their own paragraph each time it switches to the other person. It may result in a lot of small paragraphs that are one line long, but that's how things go. It reads better that way, anyways.



    MY OVERALL IMPRESSION

    I liked it. It's definitely a dark story so far. The Prologue was a nice recap of the early events in Michael's past and caught us up to speed quickly on his dark sense of humor. You may want to focus more on the action and conflict of the first chapter, however. It reads a little bit like a day-in-the-life at times. Consider making one scene or chapter while Michael is at home with Stacy and then a separate one at the office building with Mr. Almant. They are different settings with different focuses.

    The scene at home with Stacy seems to be filler. There's no progression for the characters. They get up and eat breakfast. However, you could really spice that up by having Stacy discuss what she saw on TV! A little conversation about that could dredge up Michael's memories of his mother's death, which would make the scene read much better.

    The second scene takes place during Michael's interview with Mr. Almant. The real interest in this chapter isn't the interview, however. It's the strange noise he hears in the basement. Either you need to spice up the action during the interview by playing with the reader (maybe Michael suspects he isn't getting the job after all, which creates anxiety and tension in the reader?), or make the noises in the basement the true focus of the scene by spending more time with them.

    But, ultimately, the entire arc of the chapter is leading up to his kidnapping at the hands of the pair in the alley. Make sure not to bring the climax too quickly. There were three climaxes in the chapter, really. The shocking news on the television was the first. What could beat three murders? Then the stabbing that Michael witnesses in the cafe. Why would his character not report that to an authority? Is there a reason that he would simply forget about it moments later? A random person walking down the street would probably run away screaming for help if they saw a stabbing. The third climax is the one you want to focus on, though, because it's happening to Michael. He's the focuse of the story so far, so make sure his kidnapping gets the most attention and that the action builds up to this event and not the earlier ones. Dull them down somehow. Maybe the stabbing at the cafe was a prank with a butter knife and some ketchup? Maybe you could cut and paste the bit about Stacy seeing the triple murder in its own scene between the time of the interview and the end of the chapter so that Michael leaves, we go back to Stacy watching the news just in time to catch the triple murder, and then hop back to Michael right before he gets kidnapped.

    Those are the suggestions I can make for you. The good news is that 90% of the things I've pointed out are instant-fixes. The commas are the main thing to watch, obviously. Focus first on the grammar and syntax. Once that's cleared up, it will be much easier to work with the plot and pacing.

    I hope this helps in some way. Take from it what you will. I did like the story so far, though, and hope to hear more from you soon. Keep up the writing! And as Suede7 is wont to say, press on! :lol:

    ~ Astaroth, resident Grammar Nazi
     
    #13 Astaroth, Feb 18, 2008
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2008
  14. Louise

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    I have to agree with Astaroth and would add that there is a problem with tenses which makes following the story a bit difficult.

    I would say overall a good plot which leaves the reader wanting more but there are a few too many grammatical problems for it to be easy to read and as Astaroth mentioned there are some filler parts which don't seem to lend anything to the story or overall plot.

    One inconsistancy; in the prologue you say that he bought the appartment with money his mother left him then in chapter one you say that he was behind with the rent... there is no rent to pay if he has bought the appartment.

    To make the story more readable you could lighten the sentances a bit eg;
    Stacy made her keep working as a substitute teacher... This is formal and stilted when you could just as easily say
    Stacy worked as a substitute teacher...
     
  15. Rizpaz

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    O_O

    Right... well then I obviously didn't read carefully enough...
     
  16. Gustav

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    hey, it was good so far. other than the few grammar errors previously pointed out, it seems to be on the right track. do not let the grammar errors discourage you though, you will learn them all as you go and get better as you notice them.

    i am actually in the middle of revising and proofreading my novel- the worst part, in my opinion. But letting others read it is the most important part, bc it will give you ideas and, as you know, they can pick up on grammar errors you may miss.

    god luck with your novel!:thumbsup:
     
  17. Blaz

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    No offense, but some of the people here DON'T KNOW GRAMMAR!!!!(Not the writer, the people trying to help him)
     
  18. panda

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    John O'hara is reported to have said," When I speak of writing,I speak of re-writing."
     
  19. Fiender

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    Ok, I made all of the changes you suggested (although a few of the lines you posted were segmented, I couldn't tell which line you were referring to).

    I quoted your comments on the story, to help justify some of the choices I made.

    Firstly, Stacy realizing that people who go missing near where Michael is applying for a job usually turn up dead and not getting a chance to tell Michael is foreshadowing his capture. Also, it's an element of "the reader knowing more than the characters" that I feel is important to establish early on, because some obscure references early on become major plot points by the end.

    The sound in the basement, during the interview, is also something that becomes important later one. I very much wanted to give the reader the feeling that Michael will get the job so it sort of feels like "the clouds are going away" for him.

    As for not reporting the stabbing to the authorities, I've added a bit to the story saying that Michael saw someone make a phone call after the incident, and how seeing such gruesome sights were not uncommon in the city. The only way to make sure you get to live from day to day is to not get involved in other people's business. I admit that without that bit, him not reporting it didn't make sense.

    As for separating the chapters, I posted the first (20) pages of the book and there are (226) pages total. I sort of felt that chapter one should be the introduction to the overall situation.

    Thanks again, and thank you all for your critique.
     
  20. jocr92

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    can you give me a new link?