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Need some advice with flirting/initiation...

Discussion in 'Family, Friends, and Relationships' started by pgame311, Aug 11, 2013.

  1. pgame311

    pgame311 Guest

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    So I guess I’m writing this here because I really have no one else to talk to about it... I apologize in advance for the length, but I have this friend, I’ve written about him a few times here, but there’s been some new stuff that’s happened between us and I’m not sure what to make of it.

    Basically, I’m bi, but lean more towards guys, and I have no idea what he is. When people meet him, they often assume he is gay until they’ve met the girl he’s kind of with—including other LGBTQ people. He has had girlfriends in the past (but so have I) and the only one I know cheated on him because of intimacy issues, and the others are like his best friends now. He goes on weekend trips with them and nothing comes of it (he’s made sure to tell me they’re just friends). I don’t know if he currently considers himself “attached,” so obviously, I want to keep that in mind before I go on—I don’t want to hurt anyone, but if he is attached, it’s pretty publically not working/assumed to be a beard for reasons I don’t really want to get into besides the general vibe.

    We hit it off almost immediately. He was a sophomore and I was a junior, and we took this anthro seminar together back at school. Our teacher was gay, but not flamboyantly so, and he picked up on it way before I did. When some homoerotic literature was introduced into the class, he and I would jokingly text about it, and not in any kind of phobic way. Someone who had previously owned my book had made a crude drawing of one of the more graphic scenes, and his response when I showed it to him as a joke was: “That’s wrong. The other guy was on top.” It wasn’t just that, though. We had a book with this centerfold of a guy (identity theory-focused class) and when we had to share my book that day, he kept looking at me.

    My spirits were crushed when I saw him kissing this girl (albeit she was dragging him around like a hunk of meat and clearly initiating it all). He was really (like blackout) drunk, and even while he was being carted around, I caught him looking at me a few times. I decided to stop pursuing, though, because whether he was straight or in the closet about any male-male feelings, I knew it wasn’t going to end up well if I got too attached. So we remained friends for a while and I backed off, eating lunch together quite a bit.

    On two occasions, however, he invited me alone to eat with him. On many others he introduced me to his friends and had clearly talked about me to them. As we discussed some of the queer theory surrounding the texts, we had all sorts of odd exchanges where one of us would mention words like “twinks” or something and the other would look up completely shocked (I don’t really hear that language coming from my straight friends). He also assured me our teacher was dominant in his relationship, and while he is both conservative and Christian, he is consistently making the case for why gay marriage should be part of the Republican agenda and that Matthew 19 is a “born that way” argument from Jesus. The most telling moment was when one of our friends asked how she should approach finding out if a guy was gay—specifically by saying “So, I heard you like it up the butt.” Immediately, he jumped on her and, somewhat humorously, reassured her that was insensitive and that not all gay guys bottoms. Right. Plus, his parents are, like mine, literally the most supportive people ever and have apparently said they wouldn’t care if any of their kids came out. From what I understand from a mutual family friend, actually, they have been trying to culture a more sound environment in case he is gay because they’ve kind of always suspected it.

    So that brings me to this summer. The two of us had been taking a Bio class outside of Philadelphia over the summer, so for the first time ever, I got to be alone with him. Just him. Before I go any further, I want to clarify that he reached out to me about taking the class with him, and we mutually agreed about carpooling—I wasn’t pulling the situation manipulation that some guys sometimes pull (I’ve been on both sides...) He had been out of school for a few months due to a pretty serious concussion and we texted at least once every few days. When I said I was changing from pre-med to regular bio, he texted me back immediately with “You need to take it with me!”

    When we first met up, I had lost almost fifty pounds since the last time he saw me, so there was an aspect of me that knew, before that, this kid was way out of my league. Seeing him again, however, I didn’t feel this way, as I had toned up and been able to wear some more complimentary clothes for the first time in years. Even if it was just a “wow, you worked hard since I’ve seen you,” look, his eyes kind of lit up. As we walked, it was like we had never been apart, and like in past times, he refused to talk about that girl he had been hooking up with. Like I was trying to play it off as straight guy asking another straight guy about his girlfriend (I’m in the closet), and he seemed really disinterested. This continued through every walk and car ride, and in the mean time, fifteen minutes didn’t go by without some reference to LGBTQ stuff—often initiated by him.

    By the time I saw him last week, I’ve been in the best shape of my life and have a whole new haircut, wardrobe, etc. I was working a marketing job for a local private hospital to support myself, and I showed up in my business clothes. More than ever, he was not only maintaining eye contact, but looking for it when I wasn’t necessarily giving it back. He was walking closely, and when I mentioned walking through a neighborhood in Philly notorious for guys getting raped to get to school, he smiled and said, “How do you avoid those guys coming after you?” I’ll admit it was kind of creepy, but this guy looks like a model and has an amazing amount of modesty and geekiness to basically make me crush on him super hard. He wasn’t planning on taking advantage of me haha.

    Instead of being too bashful, I bit on what seemed a little bit flirty and said, “I’ll have to not shower or something.” Not so smooth, but whatever. He said (playing with his hair for a total of forty minutes during the ride, mind you) “Well, you’ll have to do something,” and started cracking up—looking at me until I looked back at him (we were on the freeway). Later, I mentioned my dad grew up in “East Bumfuck, Ohio,” and he reacted almost the same way, repeating “bumfuck” twice and mentioning something made him think of “[me] and [my] wit” in class today.
    There were some other fleeting things, but since this is such a long post already, I’ll leave it be. The most intense and final moment was when he dropped me off for the last time. We won’t be seeing each other for a few weeks and before I left the car to walk into the apartment I had rented for the summer, he wanted to get my schedule. As we talked, he unbuckled his seatbelt and leaned back toward my chair, this time not taking his eyes from me. We basically faced each other the entire time and amidst reminiscing and teasing each other he kept prying about when I would be heading back. Unfortunately, I was leaving early; he kind of dropped the conversation and told me he couldn’t wait for school to start. I got the sense he wanted me to invite him to hang out, but only because I didn’t know if it might wind up hurting that girl.

    As I walked up the stairs, he waited in the parking lot for a while before driving away. I could swear I saw him looking back, and in previous times, when he’s driven me to the nearest public transit stop or where my car was parked, he’d always wait for me, most of the time honking the horn or waving goodbye—which I obviously wouldn’t read into if it didn’t mean him wasting an extra five to ten minutes to make sure I got wherever I was going.

    Basically, I’m not so much asking if he’s flirting, because it seems like he is. It’s hard not to take some of those comments and some of the physicality in some more-than-friendly kind of way, but before I ask the next question, I kind of want to confirm that he did seem flirty. My main question, considering he texted me the next day (morning actually) when he found out his plans about school (when he was coming back, where he would be living, and that it was a single), what the hell is wrong with both of us? Even his (ex?)girlfriend made the fleeting joke when that our “bromance” was a little to serious for her back when they were together more (she’s not the only one), and every time I left his car or he left mine, it always felt like something should have come from it.

    Honestly, since we spent a half a semester studying all the theory related to minority identity, there was this emotional click and then once I felt I had entered his league (yeah, my self-esteem sucked), it’s become almost magnetic. When we’re both living in extremely accepting situations, probably both testing the waters, and on my side there’s an acute fear of rejection (so no, I’m not homophobic... If this kid ever wanted to enter into some relationship, I would do it in an instant and publically), why can’t either of it just bring it up? It feels like we’re constantly scratching the surface, but never quite breaking through because I’m not 100% sure he’s gay-bi/unattached, and he may have gotten so deep into this beard that he can’t pull the razors out without leaving a few wounds. I think he wants me to initiate, but I’m not sure how. All of you on here are saying: “spend some time alone together to see if he’s interested.” Well, I’ve kind of done that and I’ve gleaned that even if it’s not head-over-heels, he is. I’m new to this, so I’m not really sure what to do. Does anyone have any advice.
     
  2. Sunshine Cries

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    ...Dude, that's complex.

    First of all: this advice is coming from a teenager, and, at that, a young one. I DO NOT GUARANTEE THIS ADVICE.

    In my miserable 14 years, I have learned this:

    1) Act confident to the point that it doesn't seem cocky or out of character.
    2) Smile. Smirk. Show emotion in the mouth and eyes.
    3) NEVER. SAY. ANYTHING. CLICHE. In other words: no pick up lines, unless its in joking.
    4) Don't say anything that's too sexually forward; this is to the point of euphemisms, propositions, etc. I'm sensing that you're too smart for that, but I have witnessed this too many times that I have to warn everyone of this.
    5) Nothing is bad, so long as you're abiding rules 3 and 4. And don't make it seem like you're regretting what you said! Remember rule 1, too.

    Other than that, I can't give you anything else.

    All I can say now? Good luck, man, good luck.

    (...And go get him.)
     
  3. Two Shakes

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    If you were to ask me, to say he is interested in you is probably an understatement.

    Maybe next time there's a lull in the conversation, ask him, "Hey, do you have a girlfriend?" If he says no, then you can ask him, "Do you have a boyfriend?". I'm sure at this point he knows you're ok with gay people, so he should know you're not asking it in a "ew homosexuality" way, if that makes sense. If he's looking for a time to come out to you as gay/bi (which, chances are, he probably is) this would be the kind of question he's looking for- because he'll know you're okay with having a gay/bi friend. If he says no to both questions, then you could jokingly go "Got your eyes on anybody?" Wink-wink-nudge-nudge. If he is really intent on you making the first move, he'll probably say 'Just, you know, somebody' but not give any details.

    After this interaction, you should know if he's unattached and most likely, if he's gay/bi.

    Now, you say you think he wants you to initiate. Even though, to me, the romantic (and sexual?) tension between you two is enough to kill a normal human being, perhaps to him it's not so obvious? Maybe he has the same thoughts as you do- what if he doesn't know you're unattached, bi, etc etc- maybe he thinks YOU want HIM to initiate it, but he's not sure how to..

    To initiate it, I know this is stupid and unhelpful, but seriously: Just go for it. I don't know what other cues you want, this guy is being more obvious than.. something very obvious. If I were you (which I'm not) I would just kiss him, quickly in a goodbye way next time he drops you off- but hesitate a little to see how he reacts. If he looks confused and angry, you can just jump out of the car and run off, giving him time to cool off. If he looks happy-shocked or whatever, wait a little for more of a reaction- most likely it'll be a positive one and a make-out session will ensue.

    If you want to go a more subtle-but-still-very-obvious route, suggest you hang out, just the two of you, at a nice restaurant.. Offer to pay the bill at the end.. Make it seem as much as a date as you can. Most likely within the first five minutes he'll ask you, "Is this a date?" if he didn't already ask you when you first suggested it.

    It seems like the bond you two share is very close.. If it turns out he is not interested in you, it seems he is the type of person who would still be friends with you afterward. I know you fear rejection, but it is better to have lost love than to have never loved at all...

    Admit it, you saw that one coming, haha.

    I can't tell you what to do, though- just keep your chin up and do what makes you happy.
     
  4. pgame311

    pgame311 Guest

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    haha thank you both for the the thoughtful advice as well as reading the entire thing through. I won't really have another chance at this until school starts up again, so I'm kind of worried about 1-on-1 time. i guess I'll just have to man up a little and things will play out as they're destined to... thanks again!
     
  5. Two Shakes

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    Hehe, no problem, glad I could help! I really hope things work out well! :slight_smile: