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Please Help...

Discussion in 'Family, Friends, and Relationships' started by Emberblaze, Oct 5, 2013.

  1. Emberblaze

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    First thing's first, after reading this, please don't give me an answer along the lines of "you're bi, just go for it". I mean I value EVERYONE'S input, but, I feel like i'm going to get alot of those...

    I identify as gay. Why? I find guys attractive, that's an absolution. And not just sexually attractive, but, if there's a guy I like, I can just sit by him and get all kinds of butterflies fluttering about, so, yeah, guys are what I love.

    I have this friend, however, who's a girl. There's a long and complicated story about us, but basically, I came out to her two years ago, she wasn't happy, I went back in the closet and ended up asking her out a bunch of months later, she rejected, I ended up coming out the following year, then a bunch of months later she tells me she loves me, and then I felt bad, and now here we are a few months after THAT.

    So one day while I was texting her, she randomly told me that she wanted to have sex, and even wanted to pay me... I told her I'd do it for free because she's not a prostitute, but a friend that I care about a lot. So, a day or two went by, then she ended up backing out of it (thank God) and then started freaking out and saying that she was a horrible friend for even bringing me into this whole realm of feelings she's got going on.

    Basically, to make a long story short, she has deep feelings for me, and I feel deeply for her too... Only thing is, it's just not on that LEVEL of love... And, I literally sat down and drew out what it meant to be in love with someone, and that just made me question what love really was, because if love is what people say it is, then I could date just about any of my friends and be just as happy.

    And so, my mind has this internal conflict going on. I hate myself for being gay, and hate myself even more for not just ignoring the fact that I'm gay and just being with her the way she wants me (to clarify, she doesn't want JUST sex from me). God, it's so hard to write it out because there's just so much to it guys and gals. I'm just a mess...

    I want to know how you guys think about all of this I guess. And, would it be wrong for me to be with her just because it would make her happy (which in turn would make me happy).

    And another thing that pisses me off is that I just can't understand WHY the hell I'm gay... I don't know why the hell gender matters at all and it just makes me so angry that I can't get past it! She is totally my type of person, but, when I'm sitting close to her, I just don't get that feeling of exhilaration that I get when I'm aroudn a guy that I really like...

    God I hope this makes a bit of sense... If not tell me and I'll clarify. I've been debating on whether or not to post this on here for about a week just because I was scared that everyone was just gonna say I"m bi or that I just care for her out of sympathy or whatever... I just don't even know what kinda help i'm seeking...
     
  2. LD579

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    I get what you're saying completely. I've always been of the mind that gender didn't and doesn't matter to an extent, and that it's who the people are that matter — but I'm only attracted to guys and have only ever been attracted to guys. I don't know why, and that fact itself kind of almost even goes against my ideals, and it seems unfair to girls, but... I can't help it.

    Feelings can be confusing. If you don't think there's a spark, though, and/or if you don't think you are attracted to her in that way, it would be unfair to go into it for her and for yourself as well. It could be seen as selfless if you're aiming for her happiness, but that happiness would be under a false pretense, and so ultimately it would not be a good idea. With that said, it could take time and no one here may be able to tell you if you're bisexual or gay or anything else with any degree of accuracy or certainty. In the end, you'll know what to do, but again... it could take time to sort out these thoughts and feelings in your head.
     
  3. Emberblaze

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    Well it's certainly nice to know i'm not the only gay guy to think like that. One of my biggest things though is, what would be so bad about being with her, ya know? I mean, she's one of my best friends and I'm always happy to be around her... but the it's like in my head, I get a little message that says 'guys and girls don't mix!'... I think at this point one of the hardest things i'm trying to deal with is just WHY am I this...

    And thanks for your response though, just talking it out is helping for the time being. I appreciate it man
     
  4. Chip

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    In the first couple of years after I started coming out, I said to others (and believed) that I loved *people*, not specifically men or women. And I identified as bisexual. I know now that this was, for me, part of the "bargaining" stage; I wasn't ready to close the door on being the "normal" married person with a wife, 2.3 kids, a dog, and a house with a picket fence.

    Now... it's pretty clear I'm gay. I don't feel sexual attraction to women. I have had girlfriends that I connected with emotionally, but never felt a sexual attraction to. And I've had girlfriends I had sex with but it never really did much for me. I still wouldn't rule out the possibility if one came along, but I think that's pretty unlikely for me.

    Here's where it gets interesting: I completely relate to what you're saying about the connection you feel. And I'm not going to use any of the bullshit "heteroromantic" or other terms because, first, there's zero basis for their use in the psych or sexuality literature, and second, for the most part, all they do is serve to confuse the hell out of people by giving them nonexistent labels that prevent them from really understanding themselves and in most cases just delay them from feeling fully comfortable with who they are.

    So, bogus labels aside, I believe that we can (and nearly all of us do, at some point) feel real love our friends (and, for that matter, our parents, siblings, etc.) But the kind of love we have for our closest friends, family, parents is different than romantic/sexual love. It's a deep sense of caring, trust, and vulnerability. Brené Brown refers to these people as a "Move-a-body" friend; someone you can call and ask for help moving a body, and they won't ask questions and will be there, immediately, to help... and you would never even have to mention not to talk about it to others, because that person just... knows.

    And then the romantic love we feel is on a different plane of understanding. Not better, or more intense, just different. Putting aside the knocked-off-our-feet feelings we get early in a relationship (thanks to oxytocin), romantic love is a sense of strong physical attraction, sexual attractions/urges, and, in a healthy relationship, most or all of the same feelings as the love we feel for good friends/family/etc.

    If we're after a healthy relationship, we want to marry someone that we feel romantic love for. So if we're gay... that means marrying someone of the same sex. If we try to convince ourselves that we can marry our best friend of the opposite sex and be happy, most of the time we're dead wrong. They will end up resentful because we'll never be able to give them the benefit of someone who loves and cares for them in the kind of romantic-love way that they want and deserve. Even if we do have sex with them, without the real spark of romantic love, it won't be the same and won't be as deeply fulfilling and satisfying. Take a look in the "Later in Life" forum and read some of the posts there and you'll get a good idea of what it's like for people that have taken that route. It pretty much never works, and you end up with resentment on both sides.

    So I think -- but of course, can't be sure -- that what you're feeling is discomfort with fully loving yourself for the gay man you are, and are trying to maybe convince yourself that you could be happy "fitting in" to a heterosexual relationship. But that's just it... it would be "fitting in " for your whole life, and "fitting in" isn't belonging, and belonging is necessary for self worth and self esteem and self love. Worse, "fitting in" increases shame, because we know we aren't being authentic, and that's something we carry around every day.

    So, at least from the little bit I can read from your description, I don't think you're anything other than gay, and I don't think you'd likely be happy if you pursued this relationship. Much, much better to keep her as your best friend, and continue to deepen and nurture the connection you have to that friendship.
     
  5. Emberblaze

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    Chip, thanks for your response, once again, I really am glad that i'm not the only gay guy that has ever felt this way.

    "And then the romantic love we feel is on a different plane of understanding. Not better, or more intense, just different. Putting aside the knocked-off-our-feet feelings we get early in a relationship (thanks to oxytocin), romantic love is a sense of strong physical attraction, sexual attractions/urges, and, in a healthy relationship, most or all of the same feelings as the love we feel for good friends/family/etc."

    I think I really understand what you're saying here, because I've come to this conclusion myself, that there's just something different between deep care and love for your friends, than that "in love" romantic feeling. The part that really tears me is that I just don't know why there has to be a difference, ya know what I mean? The truth is, I wouldn't mind waking up next to my best friend every morning and all that romantic jazz, but, I just don't feel for her on that 'other level' of love.

    And it's really not helping that a part of me is fighting with all its might to convince myself that I have feelings for her, and another part of me is fighting with all its might trying to tell me that sympathy doesn't mean love. She's really insecure about her height because she's kinda tall, and she's insecure about her weight because according to her she was an "obese" child, but now she's averagely slim but she's constantly saying she needs to lose weight.

    I just don't want her to be alone is all... I mean, I know I don't feel for her the way she wants me to, because whenever it boils right down to it, anytime I can think about why I'd wanna be with her, the reasons are just to make her happy. Which, as I stated before, WOULD make me happy, but it just isn't the same as entering a relationship for my OWN happiness...

    As far as being ashamed of being gay, I wouldn't say that I am ashamed too much, I'm just I guess regretful would kinda be the word I'm looking for. I've accepted myself for it way too much to be ashamed, but I do sometimes wish I coulda just been straight (or bisexual cuz there's no way I could give up guys heheh) and then I'd never woulda ended up hurting her like this...

    Sorry if this was all over the place, but my thoughts pretty much are too, so...
     
  6. Chels

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    I think the best way to put it, from what I understood, is that you love her, no doubt, but you're not IN love with her, and that's the major difference.

    I'm also happy when my friends are happy, that's normal, if it's someone you really care about, but that doesn't mean they're someone I would date and make a life with.

    It usually happens the other way around you know, it's usually a gay/lesbian/bi that falls for their straight best friend and all you can do about that is push it aside, and go on with your life. You can't turn a straight guy into a gay guy, unless he himself realizes that he has feelings for this gay friend.

    For what I've read whether you were to date this girl or just be friends with her, the way you feel wouldn't change, so there's no doubt you don't have THAT kind of feelings towards her, while I'm guessing it would change things for her, if you guys don't date and stick as just friends. Like I said, I do believe that's where the difference really lies.

    I might not have worded it the best way, but in my head it did make sense, so I apologize if for you it doesn't.
     
  7. fortheloveoflez

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    "And another thing that pisses me off is that I just can't understand WHY the hell I'm gay... I don't know why the hell gender matters at all and it just makes me so angry that I can't get past it! She is totally my type of person, but, when I'm sitting close to her, I just don't get that feeling of exhilaration that I get when I'm aroudn a guy that I really like..."

    Hun, I'm a lesbian and I feel the same. Why the hell do I have to only like women when there are so many non-cis-gendered-female people out there. Some of the best people I've met in my life are men. Really. And I've had a lot of nice guys want me to be their girlfriend and I even caved in for a few just to try it, because in my mind "why the heck is gender stopping me?" but it ended badly. I ended up feeling VERY uncomfortable when they were romantic/sexual with me and ended up breaking their hearts in the end because I didn't feel the same.

    My advice would be to tell her exactly how you feel. Tell her that you think she's the perfect person but you only get romantic feelings for men (and you don't understand why and you've struggled with it but this is who you are). Tell her what you said above....about how you don't understand it and wish you could just love women like you love men, but that unfortunately is not the case. Tell her that if you weren't gay she would be your first pick. Lastly, mention how you initially agreed only because you wanted her to be happy and because you care about her.

    I wish you all the best.
    You have my support!
    Hug!
     
  8. Emberblaze

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    Thank you Chels for your response, and don't worry, it made sense to me! Whether or not if we stayed friends I don't think I'd be any less happy... And if we ended up dating, I don't think Id be any more happier either aside from being glad that I was able to 'fix' her broken heart ya know.

    Lez, I'm glad you understand how I feel. To be honest, more people than I thought actually know what I mean on this subject. Anywho, I actually already have told her how I feel.

    "My advice would be to tell her exactly how you feel. Tell her that you think she's the perfect person but you only get romantic feelings for men (and you don't understand why and you've struggled with it but this is who you are). Tell her what you said above....about how you don't understand it and wish you could just love women like you love men, but that unfortunately is not the case. Tell her that if you weren't gay she would be your first pick. Lastly, mention how you initially agreed only because you wanted her to be happy and because you care about her."

    Like, this is pretty much a synopsis of what I told her, so you're pretty spot on. She tells me she understands how I feel and that she doesn't want me to force the feelings to be there. I know she's trying her hardest to get by... So I told her that no matter what, I'm always gonna be here for her and that just because I can't feel for girls the way I do for guys, that doesn't mean I can't love her (in that deep-caring friend way ya know)

    I mean, at this point, we just have a label-less relationship going on. We aren't dating, we aren't friends, we aren't more than friends-- we're just two people who mean the world to each other. That's the way I've begun to look at it.
     
  9. fortheloveoflez

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    "I mean, at this point, we just have a label-less relationship going on. We aren't dating, we aren't friends, we aren't more than friends-- we're just two people who mean the world to each other. That's the way I've begun to look at it."

    That is beautiful. Too bad I can't slow-clap through a keyboard. :slight_smile:
     
  10. Emberblaze

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    Heh thanks. It's the best I can do without losing my friggin mind, and I guess it's not so bad. Our friendships never been stronger...