My family are a particular brand of very socially conservative christians, I'm gay (closeted) and openly irreligious. I don't have anything against their religion, or any religion in particular. It just doesn't make sense to me and I am happier without it. Most of my family is pretty chill about this, excepting my father. He argues with me antagonistically and asserts that I am close minded and "brainwashed" because I don't personally believe in any god or follow any religion. I try to find common ground with him, and can even find ways in which to agree with much of his logic. Despite how closely I can get to his viewpoint, I cannot accept absolutes and will not state that god exists. This causes him to get angry and rant about his own brand of circular logic (he's really fond of stating that if there is no god there will be, and if there will be then there already is) This causes quite a lot of friction between us and I really just want a good relationship with him. If anyone has any ideas on how to best approach conversation with him I'd love to hear about it.
Keep doing what you're doing and try to keep the peace I guess... He'll eventually accept it, and if not, it's his loss.
A philosopher once said something about how if God did not exist man would have to create one. Is that what your father meant? My parents are fundamentalist Christians, and it gives me a headache trying to make sense of their beliefs. Things like how the bible says being a lesbian is worse than being a gay male, because women don't like sex, and when they start having unnatural sex with women, it's truly bad, 'cause guys are just naturally horny and perverted so it's not as bad if men do it. Another tract I read suggested that women having sex with women means men can't have sex with those women and are forced to have sex with men to satisfy their carnal desires. So, if your a gay guy and feel bad about it, you can blame me :lol: There's a museum not far from where I live called the Creation museum, and they think dinosaurs and humans coexisted together around 3000 BS (excuse me I meant BC, or maybe I was right the first time) I don't know how to convince your Dad of anything, but just be thankful that you didn't turn out that ignorant.
My favorite suggestion to christians who want to make me believe is to ask them about how similar christianity, judaism, and islam are and wait for a response. If they don't realize they all stem from the same person, i express my opinion that they are close-minded and brainwashed by not trusting in their own faith to research other faith based religions. Keep defending yourself and don't give in just to make him stop arguing. The bible would suggest we are all in-bred but knowledge of genetics or even looking at the monarchies of ancient Egypt, or England, Spain, and France would show the birth defects would have killed us off long ago. There is the idea that the great flood that occurred in the bible was caused by the magical collapse of the atmosphere dropping all the water from the sky all at once, and then reforming before everyone died of the heat. There is the idea that micro-evolution exists, but macro-evolution is heresy because we have not seen it as human beings. There are plenty of arguments suggesting a god exists, but until it can be proven without a shadow of a doubt, then I am still a non-believer. Understand, I appreciate those who do have the faith to believe because they may be one that really needs God. I don't though.
It's hard to argue with conservative people, no matter what their beliefs are. The fact is, being "agnostic" is quite a challenge to defend. If you really want to argue, then ask about the age-old "problem of evil", as shown in the Epicurean paradox: Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? And this is coming from me, a guy who still goes to church every Sunday.
I guess there is really not much more that can be done, hopefully one day I can have a rational conversation with him. Honestly, this sort of logic would really be lost on him and would probably earn a pretty disdainful response. I appreciate the advice, being irreligious is really hard for me to defend to family members. I know where I stand and my views are, I think, quite reasonable, it is however really hard to articulate myself when faced with their emotions on the subject. This sums up fairly well how I feel about god and religion in general, to me, the evidence for god (Abrahamic god in particular) is illogical, and filled with contradictions. I don't at all need it to be happy, and in fact I find myself a happier and more fulfilled person without it. I don't even really respect religion in any form, but I do respect people, and whatever makes them happy makes me happy for them. He means to say that in the scope and time of the universe it is inevitable that a higher being(s) will evolve, and if it can happen, it likely already has. Thus proving (in his mind), the existence of the Judeo-Christian god. My dad is in many ways a really brilliant guy, a self taught chemist, metallurgist, and mechanic who generally agrees with what whatever the scientific explanation is. It really blows my mind that given all that, he believes climate change is a myth, that there were absolutely pre-columbian horses, and various other things that seem just nuts to me. I really appreciate all of your responses, I guess I'll just have to be patient with him .
Just a sidenote (here comes the scientist!): there were pre-columbian horses because horses actually first evolved in the Americas and then expanded through Siberia to the rest of the world, while eventually going extinct in their original continents long before Columbus arrived (look up "Pleistocene megafauna" for more info). Also, since you're from Utah, is your family LDS?
I was indeed aware of this fact, and yes my family is LDS, and yes they insist on the existence of pre-columbian horses during the timespan of the Book of Mormon.
