Hey again guys, so it looks like I did exactly the opposite of what you guys advised me to do... but for some reason, I don't regret it. Am I making a mistake? I went on a date with Nick, and for those of you who don't remember or who did not read my previous threads, I was having doubts before about whether I should continue with him because he was a bit mentally unstable. You all advised me to run as fast as I could away, and at that time, I thought you were right… but it so happens that I felt like I owed it to Nick to see him at least once in real life… And I think I might be falling for him now. I was only planning on seeing him for somewhere around 2 hours, but we got along so well that we were together for at least 4.5 hours. I am actually surprised that the staff of the coffee shop didn't ask us to leave, haha. Anyways, at the end of that date, I put my hand on his shoulder, and he kind of flinched and moved away… so I texted him afterwords and asked him why he did that, and he said that the reason was that he was angry at himself for looking stupid. He didn't come across as stupid at all, but you have to understand that Nick has low self-esteem to begin with. I've told him that he did not look bad at all, that I liked him very much, and that I would like to see him again. He told me that he was relieved and that he really liked me too and thought that I was "sweet". :icon_bigg It's not all sunshine and roses, though… during the day, he told me a few things that raised a few flags in my mind. The most notable of these would have to be when he told me that he had "practiced" with his friends for this date. I fear that he is hanging too much hope on the future of his potential relationship with me. He also said that he cried for two days straight before meeting me because he feared that I wouldn't like him. The fact is, I do like him very much, but I am afraid at that same time because all of you remember Sebastian. I don't want to have to go through that again ever, and so I'm afraid. But I don't want to lose Nick either. So I have somewhat of a dilemma. Any advice?
Hi Aaron! I always enjoy your threads! Many years ago, an Israeli friend of mine taught me a valuable lesson: The wise man avoids the trouble the smart man has to get out of... Looks like you chose smart... Believe it or not, I was in close to the same situation as you very recently, but I decided that very night on our date that it wasn't going to work, too many guilt-trips and I wasn't buying it, so I gave him no false hope and I had to be blunt as hell for him to just get it (but he still holds on to hope, poor thing). I guess you will have to decide what you're willing to tolerate. I strongly recommend you set some clear boundaries: on his behaviour with you, on the possibility of your ending it (as in: it's the end don't text me anymore), and on anything else that you can negotiate. As always, best of luck!
It may be easiest put like so: if he's not in good mental health shape, then he probably should work on improving that significantly before pursuing a relationship. A relationship might seem appealing and helpful to him, but it probably would only hinder the growth he needs to achieve before he can be in a successful and truly happy one. As for yourself, you'll have to make the choice as to whether you'll want to continue giving this a try or not... and if you do want to continue with this, I second what greatwhale has said: set clear boundaries and do not falter from them, at least in the beginning.
Thanks greatwhale . Yep, that sounds about right. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right, and I've already started doing that! Him and I have agreed on a 100% clear-as-glass line of communication. We've promised each other that we won't keep how we feel to ourselves. As for self esteem, we're working at that. I regret what I said before about not wanting to go through another Sebastian because that's not fair to Nick. Sebastian was very closed-off and didn't let me in to what was going through his mind. I can't remember if I've told you this before, but the final straw for Sebastian and I was when he asked for an open relationship and I said no. It's scary, I don't even remember what Sebastian looked like in real life anymore. But yet, I had a dream about him last night. I dreamt that he got accepted in my health sciences program and that I would have to work with him. I was horrified in the dream and cried until I woke up. I like to think that I'm over Sebastian, but I'm not sure. I think I'm over him as a person, but I miss having a relationship (if what I had with him can even be called that). I'm also by no stretch of the imagination some pristine example of mental wellness that should be put on a pedestal. I still have a lot of issues. In fact, I'm seeing a psychiatrist in a few weeks to try to sort them out. I feel like I may have described Nick as some sort of mental illness horror story and pretended that I'm totally healthy, but I'm not. So part of it is that I know that he'll put up with my insecurities and my anxiety and my OCD and my panic disorder and all the rest. I often pretend that the reason I broke up with Sebastian was that he was mentally unstable, but that really isn't the truth. Rather, the reason was a combination of factors. One was his desire for polyamory/polygamy, and the fact that I'm totally monogamous, that's just how I am. Another was that he was very closed off and wouldn't let me try to help him. Still another was that he still suffered from some internalized homophobia. A lot of things played a role, but none of them were really mental illness per se. I think I do want to give it a try. Nick is a nice guy and he deserves that much. Also, he seriously impressed me late last night. We had talked about his fear of coming out when we were together, and I was reassuring him and telling him that these things get better. So last night, he called his mom back in China (he's from China, he's only lived here for 1.5 years) and told her everything, including that he's gay. Nick had said to me before that he thought his mom's reaction would be really really bad, but it turns out that she just told him shoo ed him and that he should just be safe and that was it! So he's now officially out. And I'm notably impressed. I'm taking that as a good sign, what do you guys think?
Hey Aaron! If you ask me, I think there are a great many red flags here. So I'll add my voice to the others and say that you're potentially putting yourself up for a lot of trouble. For starters, and this might seem harsh: in your previous post, you're showing that you thought about this a great deal. Which is good. But it's also a fact that, in the end, you have 4,5 hours of interaction with him. Okay, plus online contact, but still... you spent, in total, less than 24 hours interacting with him. That's not a whole lot to go by. At this point it's really impossible to say whether all of those "I'll work on it" stuff is really going to happen. All it shows is that the good intentions are there, but everyone starts out with good intentions. Secondly, I hope you won't begrudge me from looking up some of your old threads from the Sebastian days, but... I see somewhat the same pattern. Right now, you see all that was wrong with it, but that's not the tone of your old threads. In those, it was very much "sure, there's some problems, but all relationships have them. Is it too soon to tell him I truly love him?" And, mind you, that was after vastly more time with him than you spent with this Nick guy. And... if I look at this one, it seems kind of the same. It's normal to gloss over problems when you're new to someone, but you should quickly see if there's a pattern. Being nervous and feeling a need to be liked on a first date is normal, but now that it's established, you should be very careful for (as Greatwhale mentioned) guilt-trips. If this becomes a pattern of him requiring you to elaborately tell him you still like him at every turn, then my advice is even going to be to run and don't look back. At the very least, I'll fully agree with Greatwhale: you need to set boundaries. And you can't allow them to be trampled. No "but he's working on it and this was really the final time I let him do that!" OK, I'm sorry for probably being a bit harsh. Above all, I do want you to just be careful before committing at the first step. I don't doubt he's a good guy, but sometimes that's not enough for success. And, above all: keep posting! More viewpoints are never a bad thing!
Hey Filip! (Sorry, just couldn't help myself :lol You're totally right, there are a lot of red flags. But the back of my brain keeps telling me that I shouldn't discount him. Idk, I... it's more complex than that. Again, you're absolutely right. Which is why I want to see him again! I need more time with him to get a deeper sense of his personality. I respect your opinion, and I see where it's coming from, but I'm going to have to disagree. He's already started on working on things. Hell, he's been scared shitless of telling his mom back in China that he's gay. But after his date with me, he phoned her up and blurted it out. All done. I think that's a pretty major effort. He wasn't planning on coming out to her until late in the summer. Another example is how he doesn't require nearly as many positive affirmations as he used to. When we were texting for the first couple of weeks, I had to convince him I really did like him every single day. Now it's like once or twice a week. He really is trying, and I have to respect that. I don't mind, no problem. It's a bit of a sore area for me though, so if you could paraphrase rather than directly quoting, I'd really appreciate that. Indeed, you're partially correct. But also remember, I was exceedingly naïve when I was with Sebastian. Being with him taught me many things. So I don't really think that's necessarily a fair comparison. What do you think? I completely agree with you, and if it got to be like that, I would run as fast as I can. The thing is, he's actually gotten way better. I told him the truth, that I really liked him, and I was feeling bold, so I asked him to hug me and maybe more next time. That was yesterday and he hasn't said anything of it since except that he agreed. People do change. Agreed, and I won't. I've made my boundaries very clear to him. Don't be sorry, I needed to hear it. I'm going to be very careful - I've made no commitments at this point, not will I consider doing so for quite a while I think. I learned my lessen with Sebastian; I'm going to be very cautious this time. Definitely, I will!
Hey aaronmed, I would like to say be careful. Previously I said to run because he had baggage that wasn't yours to carry and I stick by that. I think Filip is right when he said you haven't had enough time interacting with him to know he is going to change. You don't have any empirical evidence that he can, and the changes in the status quo are significant, but I still think (as a person who only knows what is on this forum, that is) you should keep your distance and hold your cards closer. Maybe running fast is harsh; friendship first might be better and then seeing what he is like to determine how to proceed. I just don't think you should try to conjure yourself into a relationship because you miss being in one. Though I have never been in one myself, I don't think that would be fair to your or the other guy. I have no empirical evidence to substantiate any claims I am making, they are purely analytically based arguments from what I have inferred from the information I have read here. Feel free to disregard them for the lack of validation. Good luck though and I hope things work out well for you!
Hey ginger! True, but by the same logic, my baggage wouldn't be his to carry. I don't want this to seem as one-sided as it's becoming, because I have plenty of baggage too. I think of it like a swap-'n-trade kind of deal. I'm okay with dealing with his baggage if he's okay dealing with mine. Doesn't that sound fair? You're right in that I haven't had enough time to make a judgement. But that's exactly why I want to give it more time. It's not like I've asked him to marry me. It's not like he's my boyfriend. It's not even like we're committed in any way, shape, or form. I've only been on one date with him. I want to give him more time than that. I want to really intimately get to know him on an emotional level before I make any decisions. I've never been a fan of the friends-first approach. It just seems like everything's built on false pretences... I also want to see how he responds to intimacy, because this is his first time with a guy. You're right, that wouldn't be fair, but that's not why I'm doing this. I could conjure myself into a superficial relationship fairly quickly, but that's not what I'm doing. I'm feeling things out with Nick because I genuinely do like him. I actually very much appreciate your comments, they get me thinking .
