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Not-so-well planned, but still valid work

Discussion in 'Family, Friends, and Relationships' started by jonnemack, Feb 14, 2014.

  1. jonnemack

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    My name is Jonne, yep, just the way it sounds is the way you spell it. I am 21 and I am a gay boy.

    I'll try be short, cause I'm new in the community, always read some posts from the board but never got the courage ro come up here and write, put all my feelings.

    Thing is, I'm 21 like I said, I'm in college and just like a post I've read early, my time never came. Even the smallest physical contact never happened, never told anyone I was gay, not even on the internet. I am the type of guy that always thought the right moment was comming, and now that I GUESS it came, I feel more than completely loss.

    My entire life was a giant closet. I do not look gay and I never wanted to, so far. This semester just started and I deciced I would hit on a guy I've met on the end of last semester, he gave me a random ride to the college. Anyway, I don't know HOW I put this on my mind but, after knowing he is gay (100% sure), I feel it's my time to show him I am gay too.

    We talk regular everday normal stuff at facebook, almost on a regular basis. We talk about college and as I am a funny person, I believe I dragged his attention. But is this enough? Well, I lent him my last year's notebook and I left on it some pencil notes with random sentences, implying that I'm gay so he would figure out by himself.

    I thought it was the best way, don't judge me! I started to dress differently, to make him look at me during the breaks, I changed my habits cause I know he is gay and this might be my first chance to have a relationship.

    Finally comes the questions... What if he doesn't find out I'm gay? And if he eventually does, how am I suposed to make he even like me back?

    Thanks in advance for all the support.
     
  2. Wildclover

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    Have you thought about just telling him you're gay? Sometimes the simplest answer really is the best answer. Welcome to the forum!
     
  3. jonnemack

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    Thank you Wildclover!

    Don't think I didn't consider your opinion valid, but... I guess in my inital text I didn't make it clear that we are don't have that much intimacy, yet. Like always, I am afraid that if I tell him, thinks will just go out of control.

    He's the gay type of guy that posts a picture on the internet and 5 minutes later, it has 50 likes. He is surrounded by girl friends, making a wind shield. I am a reserved guy, not that I'm shy, I'm not. I am outgoing with my friend and most people, I just don't like showing myself a lot, like he does.
     
  4. mbanema

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    I'll add a second vote for just telling him.

    I can definitely understand why you would just leave hints or lightly flirt with him once in awhile if you didn't know he was gay, but if you're sure he is there's really nothing to lose. He may or may not return your feelings, but it's not going to blow up in your face and he's not going to try and out you or anything. If he's someone you really like I think it's worth having some faith in him and showing a little bit of trust.

    I don't think it's relevant that he enjoys being in the spotlight more than you do. I know the people I end up crushing on are usually pretty different from myself.

    Good luck! :slight_smile:
     
  5. dano218

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    I agree with what others have said.Just be yourself and be honest with him. Don't try so hard. He should like you for you and don't put so much thought into it that can put him off and just push him away from you.
     
  6. Chip

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    Admitting you're gay, even to someone you know is gay, is a huge, scary step that requires vulnerability. Letting people assume or hear secondhand is certainly less threatening, but also less conclusive.

    As scary as it is, I think it would be reasonable for you to say "I've been wanting to get something out in the open with you, if that's OK" and then just saying it. THat's asking for permission, and he'll almost certainly say yes. The only piece you have to be prepared for is... if you're hoping for more than a friendship, he may not be interested, so you should be willing to accept that this could be just a nice, meaningful friendship.

    This isn't easy but I think it's a safe person to come out to, and I think you'll feel a big relief once you do it.
     
  7. jonnemack

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    The ADMIN on my topic? That makes me really glad, it shows the whole board is really supportive, no matter the reasons. Thanks, really.

    Yep, I should come out to him defnetly and I'll be really honest. I'll also take my time, my closest friends think I am straight and my college is well known for being conservative, so it's quite understandable that it's rare to find a gay guy to talk about my feelings.

    I want our friendship to develop to the point I'm free to do it, but while that not happens,if he finds out I'm gay by himself and he takes the initiative, it wouldn't be bad you know. I rather be uncloseted by someone I trust than having to struggle with myself on how telling. In fact, who doesn't?

    But mister Chip, what pains me is that I want a relationship, period. My past experience was very traumatic and now I believe I have to FIGHT for love, FIGHT for what I know that being happy means.
     
  8. dmarc92

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    Im curious to how you know he's gay. But other than that I dont think you should straight up tell him if you dont want to. And if youre only reason for telling him is because youre interested in him, then I dont encourage it. To me it doesnt seem like the two of you are close really but if you trust him and feel comfortable with just blatantly telling him your sexuality than by all means do so. But my reason for being against the idea is because he might not be as interested in you as you might assume. Do you know if he's involved with anyone else? Does he mention anything about his romantic life? Again, you two dont seem very close from what youve mentioned about your relationship. You did mention he was very outgoing & "showy" (on the internet) so are you sure he doesnt talk to other guys?

    BUT if youre going to tell him because you think it would be healthy to have another gay man to talk to about your sexuality or personal affairs etc. than I say go for it ! Just be careful how you approach the situation because not everything goes as planned and again I dont know how close you two are, but its possible he's not going to be as tactful as a closer friend would be.

    Im young though. this is just my opinion :rolle: :icon_bigg good luck !
     
  9. jonnemack

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    You're right, in fact. We're not that close, I want to talk with him more before we could reach some intimacy enough for me to clearly tell him I'm gay. But honestly, it's more like a personal problem than anything else. The logic and all advices tell me to do so but I still can't because I think I kinda care too much.

    He is really the guy that wants to be in the spotlight. He's on a prom right now, his tux picture gave him more likes on facebook than I ever got in my entire life and he really looks GORGEOUS. I get really really sad when I see this. How am I gonna approach to a guy that is clearly more confortable on showing off himself than me?

    Not talking about personality or behavior, cause I know he's a good guy, he's not a jerk. It's just that he gets more attention, cause he is the gay role model everyone wants to be and I am beyond regular. I don't look quite good, I didn't came out of the closet and I don't like to show off. So, what are my odds?
     
  10. Hefiel

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    I'm a bit curious to know how exactly did you start to dress differently and change your habits. Personally, I think that's the wrong way to go about it. Essentially you're forcing yourself to be different for someone else rather than for yourself, which to me is a slippery slope.

    I understand changing a little over time though. After coming out, my clothing began to change gradually even down to the underwear *wink wink* :lol: . However that was mostly because I didn't feel like I had to avoid that kind of clothing so that I did not look as "gay" back when I was still in the closet.

    Also, I don't think he has to "find out" you're gay like it was an accident or something. Telling him directly is a possibility, but I think simply not being afraid to ackowledge who you are would go much further in achieving the effect you want. In other words, rather than turning it into an announcement, why not just participating in discussions that are LGBT-related.

    I made my first Facebook page a handful of months ago and I've only allowed the friends I'm still in contact with as well as new friends I've made throughout college so far. From the get-go, I put my status as being interested in males, I liked a handful of LGBT-related pages that I liked but couldn't "like" since I didn't have a Facebook, and I sometimes posts pictures on my walls that may be LGBT-related and funny (nothing overly sexual...with some exceptions). Example:
    [​IMG]

    Not all the people that I've added initially knew that I was gay. Rather, I prefer to simply be myself with people and not talk about being gay (unless the subject requires it). Basically, I'm "me". What people see before they see my Facebook page is "Me". Sometimes I make notice that they should try not to get too shocked when they see my Facebook page as more of a tongue-in-cheek thing, but ultimately, they quickly come to realize that what they've learned from my Facebook page is actually just a fraction of what they've learned by interacting with me. I haven't had a single bad response so far, although I consider myself to be very lucky to be located in a very LGBT-friendly area, so things might be a bit different where you are, but that's also a great filter to remove the 'bad' friends from your list. I've also brushed the LGBT-related subjects in various essays I've written so far in college.


    I'm very very shy with people I'm not familiar with, and I'm not comfortable with my appearance at all, however I don't think that that is a deal breaker in of itself. From your part, a lot has to do with the way you interact with him. Clearly, if you want to get closer to him, you'll have to open yourself up a little more and take some risks, but not necessarily to him directly. That also means coming out to other people around you, friends in particular, and if you don't have friends, well join an LGBT club, most colleges have one, or any other club for that matter to enlarge your network, and if the question of your sexuality comes up, don't shy away from it as uncomfortable as it might make you feel. It will open up a lot of doors for you.


    Personal story: The first time people at the club learned that I was gay was a bit weird but funny at the same time. It really changed to way I act around people. There was a discussion about having a girlfriend or not and I was asked if I had one and I answered 'No'. The next question was if I was "gay", to which I answered 'Yes' (with an uncomfortable smile in my face). It lead to a series of questions, mostly related to (gay) sex and same-sex attraction that were often quite hilarious, but the uncomfortable look on their faces when they got the answer to a question they knew they shouldn't have asked was even more hilarious. I answered everything honestly, sometimes a bit more graphically when required, but the results were highly positive for me. For one, I got to attack some of the common stereotypes against gays which really helps taking down some walls between people, but it also allowed me to show them who I was and that's how I started to gradually become more and more active in the club, make friends and ended up making my first Facebook page in my entire life. :lol: The 'straight' guy I mentioned in my other thread (my first crush) was also amongst the ones that kept asking a lot of questions. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:


    Wrote a lot again...dammit. Hope that helps.

    P.S If you're into TED Talks, this one is really interesting and worth watching.
    [YOUTUBE]kSR4xuU07sc[/YOUTUBE]
     
  11. jonnemack

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    Mister Hefiel, thanks for all the support.

    I just want to get some things clear like... I'm changing the way I dress because I am tecnically into my way out of the closet, promised myself I's think about it with careful in case of a positive answer on that guy I like.

    Another thing is that my college isn't much of an open space to talk about LGBT stuff, it's a law school and everyone pretends to understand it pretty well and show some respect, but it is a very conservative city with very conservative people teaching and working there, so it's tough. By that I mean how hard was to find someone I know it is 100% gay and that has a small chance of having at least a very thrustful friendship with.

    The hardest part for me is comming from a place where I am "confortable" to another that would turn things around in a very intense way. I am not miserable in the closet, my life isn't a mess, I have a few close friends and a good family, I could live single forever and not complain about it, honestly.

    But I decided to be happy. I felt true love once when I was younger, and my true love I mean it, even though it didn't work out good for me in the end. This year I put myself together and said: I WANT THAT AGAIN. Then I'm taking a few steps to change my life, cause I want to move from "okay" to "accomplished". I want that intensity again, I want a reason to wake up every day and fight for.

    This guy is being my reason nowadays, although it makes me a little sad knowing that the conversation between us is getting nowhere and is getting rarer from day to day, that small hope makes me keep fighting. That is what this thread is all about.

    Do you get it now? :slight_smile:
     
  12. Hefiel

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    I "got it" the first time I read your thread. What I'm basically saying is that by limiting yourself to only "him" and hiding from everyone else, you are actually greatly hindering your ability to actually get to him, let alone closer to him. The way I read your posts, it feels as if you're hoping for that "one" moment to happen where you can finally be alone with him and he finally asks if you're gay as you seem hesitant to tell him directly. The problem is that this "one" moment is almost mythical, it almost never happens, let alone the way you want it to happen. It's something you have to create yourself rather than wait for.

    Also, doesn't your crush also goes to the same college as you? Wouldn't you say that, despite being a very conservative college, based on what you've written about him so far, it seems to be going quite well for him despite being open about his sexuality? There seems to be some sort of contradictions in your posts, which I'm tempted to attribute to fear, more precisely the fear of coming out, which is understandable. Living so long in the closet can certainly create the illusion of comfort, however it is only that, an illusion. It disappears very quickly once you realize how narrow the closet really is and how claustrophobic it feels when you're seeing all these openly gay guys walking around without a care in the world, even more so if it's a crush, while you're still there holding the doors shut hoping no one finds out or maybe hoping for someone to force the doors open for you.



    But I "get it". Many of us have gone through a similar experience as you, myself included. Some had it worse, some had it easier, but it pays off in the end. I was in the closet for a good 10-11 years, was burned pretty badly until the point where I developed severe trust issues. However, after coming out and trying to reconnect with people again as well as meeting new ones, I've learned that I have to take the first steps. I have to be willing to give that trust to people so that they in return can feel they can trust me, and I have to be out and proud because there's just no way in hell that I'm going to go back to such a narrow and dark closet when I can have all the world around me. And it's happening, I can talk to the new (and old) friends I've met without constantly having to fear that I might slip out and they'll find out that I'm gay when I don't want them to know. I'm openly having conversations of all ranges from philosophy to gay sex and the world hasn't caught on fire.

    If me being gay bothers someone, well I'll give that person the opportunity to explain himself and talk to him about it, but if he doesn't want to hear anything well he can go :***: himself because I'm not changing who I am for that one person who doesn't want to hear that not everyone is straight. That also has worked quite well for me as there are people around me who aren't quite comfortable with homosexuality, but I see it more as an opportunity to educate them. I still talk to these people whenever we see each others and we have great conversations and sometimes they'll even jump in on the jokes which surprises me a little, but it shows they're trying. Sigh, now I'm seriously rambling and way out of subject.



    All of this to say that you're preventing yourself from having that great opportunity when you're trying so hard to stay in the closet except for that "one" person. Besides, being out of the closet is really [​IMG]

    :lol:
     
  13. nowhere but up

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    ^^ awesome insights.
     
  14. jonnemack

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    It is my time to "get" your thoughts now, mister Hefiel...

    I'll try to be short but at same time very honest and meaningful. The fact is that NOBODY knows I'm gay and recently I lost my group of friends at college, they moved out. I am starting a new cicle all over, I need to meet new people cause I am literally left off. We were in a group of 4 and till they were with me, everything was fine in the closet, we could have fun our own and nobody would even notice if I'm gay or not.

    Sad feelings about losing my friends, I feel "free", per say... This guy is the only one I know for 100% chance that he's gay and my intentions were put clear in the thread. Also, it's not my intention to wait for that one special moment and wait for magic happens, but I am indeed waiting for the right time for us to get together and talk as friends. Period.

    Updating my status, I feel he's really absent lately, I don't know if I bored him or anything, but I sure feel "injured" inside. I can't get him close to me, maybe he's not even aware I'm gay and that's the reason he is not confortable with me. I make the clear straight stereotype, I like sports, I am a gamer, I like rock and roll... But world is a shitty place and it sounds like even gay people can't understand that I can like all those stuff and still BE INTERESTED IN GUYS. That injures me even more because if I am stuck inside the closet waiting for a gay friend to talk to, that gay friend seems to be distant from me simply because I am not gay.

    Hope I made it clearer this time ^^
     
  15. Ravi-VIXX777

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    Would talking about his interest work? After looking over what makes me think about guys, is how they try to get my attention. Being the oblivious nut head I am, i prefer the blunt/straightforward questions.

    Perhaps think of questions that involve his past as well as being LGBT. Maybe past boyfriends, ask about his coming out story, or what he likes in a guy.
     
  16. Hefiel

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    It was the same for me, except I was the one who moved out on my friends about 5-6 years or so ago and cut off all contact with them. I was running away basically, things like that can happen. I started reconnecting with a few high school friends after I came out last year, one in particular who came out in high school but I was too far into denial that I gradually distanced myself from him. College was the big opportunity for me. No one there knew me, and I came out to a whole classroom the second day of school after a simple question of "what makes you different" was asked. It was a test. Either nobody would bat an eye, or I'd get really bad looks, but I was willing to take that risk. Nothing really happened though, the way people interacted with me didn't change. Even had someone come up to me and say he thought I was really courageous to come out like that which actually hadn't cross my mind at the time. It was great, liberating even.

    Also joined a club to try and work on my trust issues and make some new friends at the same time. Was really awkward at first, but oddly enough, after people found out I was gay, it kind of tore down some barriers and suddenly I was talking to more people and making new friends. Even had the support of the whole club as I was going after that straight guy, which was hilarious. I still have their support for that matter, although I'm not going for that straight guy as much anymore. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

    Sort of curious to know what you mean by "free". I have a hunch, but I'd rather not make a judgement call too quickly in case. Plus I've already written enough as is, and I have to work on my projects for college :dry:.

    There's a subreddit called "Gaybros". The premise of the group appears a bit sexists (because it associates activities with gender), but overall the members haven't come across that way at all to me. It's really just a place to chat about shared interest that usually revolve around sports, working out, gaming, etc but they also touch a wide range of other topics. It's a pretty mature community. I'd post a link, but since they sometimes post NSFW stuff (often links to gay porn videos when the subject comes up) I'll just play it safe and won't. Don't want to give the admins or mods more jobs :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
     
  17. cespy

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    Hi Jonne, my name is Chris and I share some of the struggles you have. I am also really into sports, video games, rock n roll, and all the things that most people think a gay man would never be interested in. I even have to convince most people that im actually gay and not just playing a joke on them. I was completely in the closet until 4 years ago. Coming out to just one person made me feel so much better about my self and that led to me coming out to my entire group of friends, and now i dont have to worry about having to lie about my love life around the people i hang out with and it is a huge weight that lifted off my chest. i came to find out that there a lot of straight guys, at least where i live in California, who are into the same things we are that are completely fine with having a gay friend. Also, that there are gay guys just like you and I who are into the same things we are. Coming out to the people i care about (im not openly gay to everyone) has led to me living a much happier life. I think that you should definitely come out to someone, but im not sure if this guy you like is the right one to come out to. i suggest coming out to someone who you are already really close with.
     
  18. jonnemack

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    Hefiel and cespy, thanks for the support again, let me update things and explain myself a little bit more.

    I'm stepping outside the closet, slowly, but my closest friends wouldn't really accept me as gay, maybe one or another girl friend, but still would be really awkward cause we know each other for many many years and everyone still thinks I am straight.

    I don't follow the stereotypes, that's my biggest problem. I always accepted myself as gay, around 7 to 8 years ago I came to that conclusion. BUT, only now I believe I am "mature" enough not to care too much about other people would think of me. I am still very very concerned about my closest friend and relatives, they give me headaches everyday... But for unknown people and new friends I might make, I don't care anymore.

    Here comes the problem with the stereotypes. I don't show up as gay, like, in any way a person would think I'm gay just by seeing me and talking 10 minutes with me. I also don't check out on boys too often. With that in mind my problems are bigger, because I can't draw attention from a gay guy cause he will never know I'm gay.

    With this "crush" I have, the situation is exactly at this same level. He must have asked some of our mutual friends if I'm gay or not, recieved a negative answer and now he's avoiding me, simple as that.
     
  19. Hefiel

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    There's something that bothers me about this. Have you ever been able to tell what a person's favorite ice cream flavor is by just talking to them for 10 minutes without ever asking about ice cream flavor? I think not.

    Forget the idea of stereotypes. For one there are too many of them that they all overlap and contradict each others, and second, most people don't meet the stereotype. I don't "look" gay because "gay" doesn't have a look. It's a sexual preference, not a CoCo Chanel handbag. This tendency to conflate sexual orientations with behaviors typically associated with certain genders is just harmful and only leads to misguided and misinformed conclusions that do not, and never will, represent the actual reality.

    The only reason people know that I'm gay is because I'm openly flirting with guys. The only reason people know I love Nutella is because I told them and I REALLY LOVE NUTELLA. :lol: Forget about stereotypes, it's just society's OCD kicking in and trying to put entire communities into a small box that fits with their personal beliefs.
     
  20. jonnemack

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    Okay, I'm back here.

    Talbking about the subject of stereotypes is becoming really confusing for me because I know my biggest problem is letting people know I'm gay. First because I don't want to, not ready to leave the closet and I don't think on doing it right now. But at the same time I have to show people I'm gay, even on normal conversations or anything between friends because I want to meet gay people, to be part of where I literally belong, but in a small group that would also respect my will to stay closeted.

    Is it so hard? My answer is: YES, HOLY SHIT HOW HARD IS THAT!

    Currently I'm on a position where I regularly see that crush of mine and I'm trying to get along with his friends, that I know only as acquaitances. So far so good? NO! At the same time I want to be free with this crush and get closer to him to the point where I can tell him all stuff (including that I'm gay), I don't want other people to see me too close of him because he's clearly gay and I don't want to be gay (to other people).

    I feel awful right now, like I deserve no respect because I want to be gay for only the ones I care, cause I'm not ready to tell the rest of the world FUCK YOU.

    Sorry for everyone that might get offended with my behavior, I feel I'm a shame to the whole gay community because I am happy being gay, I want to be gay but I can't face all the consequences, I want to live in the perfect world where everything is accepted.