So... I have a friend and I've thought that we were quite close. She comes from a very privileged background in which she attended and advanced high school, private college, etc. She took art classes, piano lessons, and traveled to different continents as a child. Her parents and grandparents all have graduate degrees. Now, I am completely self-taught from grades 7-12 (was skipped a grade), had almost no access to outside activities (I did take martial arts for a few months as a teenager), and have only traveled to one island outside of the US. I will be the first in my family to earn a Master's degree from a research university, and the first to earn a PhD. We passed by a loud grunge/ illegal pot/ who-knows-what-else store while walking from a cafe and they were blasting horrid rap music. I made the comment that it wasn't music and she immediately accused me of being an elitist. She then played screamo music at me to try to prove that it was art; I conceded that the instrumental music in the background was music but stated that I do not view screaming as artistic. She became obviously frustrated and continued to suggest that I was being exclusionary - keep in mind that I wasn't trying to regulate what she or anyone else listens to or views as artistic - I was only expressing my opinion. It ended with me feeling extremely offended and disappointed in her when she is the very definition of white privilege and I went to a school where I had to chase straying goats and people stoned me (seriously, with rocks). She has the privilege to reject her own elitism because she's completely protected. I absolutely cannot fail; I have worked hard for everything and have, in the process, developed an appreciation for things that she finds "snobbish" (despite having full access to them for her entire life). Am I being unreasonable? Because I don't think that I am.
People who grow up in comfort rarely detect others' elitism correctly. That said, @Best_of_both is right. It's just an argument. And if you think she was false, then don't worry. If she's right, then change those things you dislike about yourself.
Honestly, I think both of you just took the argument a little too far. Opinions shouldn't end in personal insults the way this one did.
Yeah, you took it too far. I think it hasn't go so much to do with your backgrounds and the (lack of) privilege you had. You both shouldn't take it to a personal level, like she said that "you are an elitist", and you accuse her of having "white privilege". It should stay a philosophical conversation about "what is art" with arguments etc... Also privilege is a matter of luck. Anyone who were born in a wealthy family would probably go to art classes, piano lessons... That doesn't mean they can't grow up to accept different kinds of expression. It's actually good for her that she didn't become narrow-minded. Except if her very "open" opinions about art are profoundly hypocritical.
You of course are simply carrying on a long tradition. Rap isn't music because there's no melody. Electronica isn't music because a computer made it. Punk and metal aren't music because you can't understand the lyrics. Rock isn't music because it's just a bunch of gorilla noise. And crooners aren't music because they can't reach the back row. I'm pretty a lot of people didn't think Debussy was making music, either. I don't know - I consider anybody that says anything "isn't music" to be at least somewhat elitist. You can dislike it, and choose never to listen to it again if you so desire, but that doesn't make it "not music". (And no, don't pull out your Funk and Wagnall's.) To do so is to invalidate the genre and its fans by removing them from even the barest of consideration. You're not just saying "my music is better than yours" - you're saying "what you listen to isn't even worthy of the term 'music'." That's about dictionary-definition elitism right there. That said, I know a fair number of musical elitists. The thing is - they wear the badge proudly. To them, it just means "I just have good enough taste to know good music from bad". I'd suggest either adopting that attitude, or switching to the "I just don't like that" school. Either/or. Lex
Wow. Everyone is really mis-reading this thread. I didn't accuse her of anything or argue with her about it at all. I just took it. And I only said that screaming wasn't music - not the background melody. Also, I'm not wanting to change. I was just venting because I felt hurt; I now know not to do that on here in the future.
You asked if you were being unreasonable. And, in essence, to a degree, I think you were. You gave your opinion (that stuff isn't music), she gave hers (that attitude is elitist). Yeah, her attempting to educate you about music seems a bit excessive. But she wasn't the one posting here - you were. I don't advise the other people in the story, since they're not here to read. I only give my advice to the person who posted. If you have an issue with her attitude (or just her choice of words), perhaps you should discuss this with her. That said, something about the entire post suggests there's else going on. Lex
I agree. Whenever someone takes the time to post a thread, they are doing it for a reason. Often times, like in this case, you might be trying to get some support for what you recognize was a controversial argument. The easiest thing is just to talk with your friend about why you were upset, but not in terms of "I'm right; you're wrong."
