There are probably thousands of these on this site, but of course, I want to describe my own dilemma of adolescent romance. Get ready to be amused, or bored, of course. For the sake of anonymity, I won't mention any names, obviously... Okay, so, here's the thing... I'm a 15-year-old guy (sophomore in high school; turning 16 shortly) and I'm attracted to another guy (also fifteen, but he's a freshman). I'm starting to think that maybe I love him, although I'm not entirely sure on how love works due to some past issues, but that's not the point... His sexuality is the debate here. My issue with him is that he claims he isn't interested in me because he isn't "gay or bi." However, my undying belief is that he is "gay" (or bisexual) and he's hiding it... My beliefs aren't based on stereotypes, so don't even start... The information I've accumulated over the past few weeks that lead me to believe this are listed below (some may be rational or not, but just look at them and judge for yourself). -A lack of meaningful interest in females... He's had girlfriends before, but so have I, and I've actually managed to hold on to one for two years whereas he's supposedly not attached. -He assumes a rather defensive stance when one conjectures that he is "gay." To me, this implies insecurity about his sexuality, especially given that sometimes he is called "gay" jokingly. Internalized homophobia is supposedly linked to one being afraid to realize themselves. He needs to make it clear to others that he's not "gay." In a friendly context, he showed my friend a picture of him with another friend of his (who was a guy), and just had to say that he wasn't "gay." What's the big deal? He doesn't even know my friend because she and I knew each other from a different school... Their arms were around each other in the picture, but that doesn't imply anything... It wasn't suggestive of anything... -Parents are homophobic (he's even said so), supposedly very religious and "traditional", which could be placing tremendous pressure on this guy, should he be "in the closet," as people say. The father has expectations for his son to be "masculine," and given the narrow-mindedness that typically comes with people living in the area, would probably envision his son as "feminine" if he were to have attraction towards males. -I've announced my feelings towards him, and he has dismissed me, claiming to be "straight." I continued trying to extract some information from him, but after receiving ambiguous messages from him and arguing with him after questioning his motives, I've stopped. Afterwards, we've apologized to each other and established that we were merely "friends," but he still feels "weird" and "uncomfortable" from friendly socialization (i.e. "horsing-around, hugging, etc.). What's wrong? I thought... If I'm not going to have you, then why are you feeling so strangely in my presence? I even made it clear that I'm not interested in him due to his turn-offs, which would make one think why I even care about this... Simply put, I want him to be honest and secure with himself, something that seems lacking in him, before he makes any life-changing decisions. -I "feel it" in him, and others do too. Normally, when I suspect someone of being "gay" or "bi," I'm right about it... This is a rather lousy reason, but again, I assure you, it's not based on stereotypes. Others also suspect the same, but don't call him out on it because he becomes infuriated. This part is actually a bit more interesting than I thought because when I look at him, since he's a few months younger, he reminds me of myself... when I was at the same period of mental maturity he is in, questioning and possibly hurt inside but not revealing that to anyone. -Abides to a vow not to masturbate or "have sex before marriage." This to me just supports the claim that the parents are keeping him "closeted" because honestly, adolescents are sexually developing and will be curious about sex and masturbation... Also, I've read that the "no sex before marriage" is a red flag, but I'm not sure how that works when "marriage" is out of the question during high school... As for the masturbation part, my crack-theory is that he's not sexually excited by females, and because (I think) he's repressed, he doesn't want to masturbate; he doesn't acknowledge his sexual feelings. I think I have more reasons, but these are all I remember off the top of my head... They seem logical, but of course, there are some counters I am aware of... -He is a rather timid individual, which could explain his lack of apparent female desire, but he tends to open up after a friendship has been established, so... I don't get what's happening. -He is touchy with most people, but then... I don't know... -The religious BS he has down his throat might not be a mask to cover his homosexuality (or lack thereof), but then that would mean he's an idiot... Or perhaps, in terms less harsh, not attractive for me... Once religion is brought into anything, I tend to lose interest quickly. -He still feels "uncomfortable" because he feels I still like him, which could mean that he doesn't want to hurt my feelings, and that's what my friend thinks, but of course, it could also, although possibly not, mean that he's interested in me but he's afraid to think so. I don't know... I've been approaching this with optimistic pessimism, but my friends tell me not to get too excited... Unfortunately, I tend to set myself up for disappointment... The verdict: I don't know what to do with him... Trying to ignore him isn't doing anything, and neither is talking to him, because all we do is banter (he prefers not to delve into sexuality topics), but I really want a conclusive answer... Patience is key, as many have told me... I must give him time, the counselor said, because although finding myself was easy, it's not the same for everyone... But will that give me closure? He could probably stay "closeted" until his forties or fifties, be married and have three children, and then regret everything and decide to escape misery when there aren't many options available... I've spoken to the counselor, and she sensed something in him when he went to her office for X reasons; she sensed that he wanted to talk to her about me, but he was too shy to. My brain is saying: I MUST KNOW MORE! But I can't be any more imposing or presumptuous than I have already been, or else I'll further lose him... Also, if he were to speak to the counselor about me, would I truly find solace? Would I "win" and be right about him, or would my fears just be reaffirmed, sinking me further into this pseudo-depression I'm currently in? It's tearing my soul, these questions and analyses I have on this guy, but there is little for me to do... Or at least, there is little I can do that is effective and hasn't been stated... I need more advice... Something different that I haven't heard before, and I'll tell you right now what I don't want to hear... Don't even bother telling me: -Anything along the lines of "plenty of fish in the sea" or "you'll find someone" because right now, I don't care... I don't think this guy is "the One," as of course, there are many other people that are compatible with me, but I'm in high school right now... There's not much else I can do, so I want to reel in this fish from beneath the murky waters and see what I can do with it... -"Focus on other things in life, like school." Again, it doesn't really matter for me... One, because I'm a nihilist (explanation would be too long here) and two, because I'm already excelling in everything else... I can get away with ignoring the teacher in my classes and still pass my exams with flying colors. Besides, once something is on my mind, I'm too recalcitrant, or "determined," to see it through. I can't leave a bookmark in there and come back to the page once I'm ready. -"Build a friendship." This was a good idea, I suppose, but since my cards were lain on the table prematurely, my hands are tied... Right now, I'm at a stalemate where I don't know what to do. Just being a friend is awkward with this guy now... -"Be patient." You can tell me to be patient, if you want, but I don't want these meaningless words... I want an explanation... So many just tell me to be patient, but that doesn't alleviate my pain... And of course, what if being patient is inconclusive? Consider that before saying this. Point is, my mind is set on figuring this guy out (for better or for worse), so... there's no turning back... Hope you enjoyed this read... Bet some of you who do end up seeing this whole thing through are thinking, "What the fuck is this?" Just give me some input as to what I should do, what you think about this guy (given the information I have so far), etc... I'll try to answer anything else I didn't cover.
It doesn't matter how right you are: if he says he's not gay, then take it at face value. You can't force someone out of the closet (if they are in it in the first place), and honestly no on else has the right to know about his sexuality except himself. You're being too pushy, IMO. Instead of trying to crack him open, try to show him he can trust you with his feelings. Right now, you seem like a zealous inquisitor, but you should act as the compassionate confidant. Also, you should really ask yourself if you're being objective in this or not. Do you want to know if he's gay so that you can continue pursuing him or because you honestly care about him figuring out his sexuality? I mean, he's only 15, so it's not like he's going to be making "life-changing decisions" any time soon. Also, since his parents are homophobic, you may underestimate the stress and pressure he is facing to conform to their expectations. So, basically be available for him, but don't force him further into the closet with your persistence.
The actuality of whether this guy is gay or not doesn't really matter at this point (though I completely get wanting him to find out for himself sooner rather than later), the fact of the matter is that he isn't ready to identify as such if he is. If he isn't, it's also irrelevant, since you'll never have a romantic relationship with him anyhow. As for the whole "sex before marriage" thing, that's how I was raised as well (in a Catholic family), therefore it wouldn't surprise me one bit that pressure on that front is actually coming from his parents and not him, who you describe as religious and homophobic. The interesting thing that I find is that he's mentioned to you that his parents are homophobic specifically, but I'm not 100% sure what to make of it. With homophobic parents, you are absolutely correct that internalized homophobia plays a huge role in keeping people in the closet. No kid wants to disappoint their parents, so as a result, rather than do that, they tend to "act straight". Again, I speak from experience here. i think that the best thing that you can do (even though you said you didn't want to hear it) is to cultivate a friendship with him, which I will admit will be a little awkward since you've already expressed your attractions to him. Show him that you can be trusted, and perhaps he'll open up to you about what is going on in his life. You seem to be being entirely too persistent about this guy, and he's not ready for that and it's not what he needs at this particular time in his life, whether he's gay or not.
I've been holding it back, the interrogation, I mean (only brought it up once and then never again... been keeping a friendly profile ever since), because I see how it can be counterproductive, but... At this point, I don't know what to do... It's all a big mess, adolescence... Yeah, we're only 15, but I can't help but feel that eventually, he could be doing something he regrets... That bit you mentioned about me underestimating about the pressure to conform to parental expectations seems about right... I mean, my parents were never like that... and I am strong in the sense that I'm not afraid to be my own individual even if it means deviating from what my parents expect. It's hard when the most I can do for him is be there for him... I can't help but feeling that there's something else I can do, but apparently, there isn't... ---------- Post added 4th May 2014 at 01:22 PM ---------- Yeah, this friendship is very awkward... I can't have any friendly physical interaction without him feeling as such and in "conversations," he's possibly more awkward than I was... Again, I'll say that I'm not pushing him or doing anything to pressure him... intentionally, at least... I don't know what he's feeling... I keep imagining that he felt like I did months ago, but I shouldn't, because I have turned into a person ready to reveal anything... I hardly have any secrets hidden... I think I'm expecting him to do the same... but see...
Show you care for him by your actions. Kill him (really his homophobia) with kindness. Also, be an example of how live life as an out guy; that may be the most important sign of support.
You mean how to live as a normal human being? There isn't much of a difference, essentially... I just hope he hasn't made any stereotypical associations... Sexuality is irrelevant to diversity... I'll see how that plays out...
I agree with this. Don't interrogate him or pressure him; if he is, in fact, in the closet, all that's going to do is make him retreat further into the closet. Your best bet, in my opinion, is to build a stronger friendship with him, show him he can trust you and that you are a supportive person, and lead by example. Show him that you can live a totally normal, healthy, productive lifestyle while identifying as gay. One of the hardest things to overcome as far as religious homophobia goes is that the view of what gays are like seems, more often than not, to be rooted in the negative stereotypes. It would be helpful for him to see that identifying as gay wouldn't mean he has to be flamboyant and wouldn't threaten his masculinity. Being gay is just a sexual preference; it doesn't dictate the kind of person he is our have to have much effect on his personality. Just be patient, don't be aggressive of pressure him, and be a friend to him. Good luck, I hope this works out for you.
I agree with what Resu and DangerAlex have said, I think you shouldn't pressure him, because that won't lead to anything good. Just be there for him, be his friend and we'll see where it goes from there. As much as I know you don't want to hear it, I believe patience really is key here, unfortunately. I've learned that from my own relationship; there's no point in trying to push someone regarding their sexuality. The only thing I can tell works is to be patient, back off and give him space to figure himself out.
Thing is with the patience, since it's in regards to him, I don't know how long it will take, so I become very anxious... Patience is my weakest point, you know?
You're not sounding very empathetic. While you might think being out is totally normal, he just doesn't see it that way right now. I know because I'm a very independent person, and sometimes I find it hard to relate to people who are so concerned about conformity. Your confidence in yourself can appear alien to someone who is confused. Try sharing with him some of your own insecurities, like crushes on other guys or how you feel when someone is being homophobic.
I mean... that's not how the world generally sees it now, of course... but eventually, it will be normal... At least, less stressful... Well, his apparent confusion appears alien to me... Sharing my insecurities? Hmmm... that sounds like something I've tried before... Don't remember what I achieved with that... Perhaps I should share more? Be more meaningful?
Update: My ultimate decision has been to ignore him... He doesn't really want to talk to me, and I don't really want to talk to him, especially when he doesn't want to talk... It's been really tempting to take some action, but to what avail? None, I'll tell you now... I'll see how this plays out in time, but that's about it... If you love something, set it free, and if it comes back to you, then it was meant to be, or however the shit people say it... Damn, I love using ellipses... Besides, I need sleep at night... I can't sleep at night thinking about the "what ifs" and "maybes" and all that ambiguity... I received more confusing messages, but you know what? No... I'm done with that... Spread your legs and fly... or remain in the closet full of sweaters where you're comfortable... Or just continue living if I'm wrong... I'll continue doubting that eternally in the back of my mind, but for now, it's over...
Personally... I would just let it go and let him do whatever he wants... But, since you seem so keen on figuring him out... the only thing you can really do is spill it out to him. Tell him your concerns, the things that make you think he's closeted, and that you want an answer. But I warn you this could just piss him off...
The Not-So-Grand Finale My internet and my keenness died, not so surprisingly, but the internet was recently revived... And shortly afterwards, he acquired a girlfriend, and while I shall still think it's BS, I won't push on it anymore. The feelings are mostly gone, and what remains are locked away in the recesses of my mind, where I will look back to and laugh... :3
