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Do gay older men struggle emotionally?

Discussion in 'Family, Friends, and Relationships' started by BearLover, Sep 4, 2014.

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  1. BearLover

    BearLover Guest

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    Looking back at the conversations I've had online, I think I've upset quite a few people without even realizing it, I've met quite a few guys online, it starts well but they end up getting upset. I don't intend to upset them, just have a conversation with them but they go off and move on very quickly over something small.

    It makes sense that they are emotional, if you think about it few younger men are into older men, my kind of attraction is rare, those older men who can only date younger men probably struggle emotionally, they struggle to find love, they are likely to spend years alone because of their sexuality. I kind of sense it in young gays but the older ones seem worse, like the first time when I was talking to a guy online he asked to show my cock, I didn't because I was about to go out with friends, I was happy to but they came over the exact time when I was talking to him, I told him I had to go, originally he was happy to meet up but it all went to pot, we were planning something but it never happened. I'm starting to think he's cold shouldering me and playing mind games because I didn't show him on the first time.

    Then the second guy said he had emphysema, our conversations were going well but he then just deleted me as a friend and got upset, he said it was down to his health condition, I'm not sure though, he still goes online, he was very upset. Again, we were happy to meet at first but he got upset when his health condition got worse, which is understandable. He said he was bipolar as well.

    The 3rd guy I met didn't even give me his skype username, I asked him to contact me and he eventually added me, then he got upset because he said I knew he was on skype yet didn't bother contacting him, I did want to because he was hot, I did it as quick as I could but then he just deleted me.

    4th guy took my smiling the wrong way, I was constantly laughing when we were on cam, I was messing about with him, typing a really long sentence so it kept him waiting, I could see he was starting to feel awkward as if I had something really long to say, I was having a laugh, he said bye, after a few days he moved on, he also sounded upset.

    Even my boss was upset when I told him I found some friends, he knew what I meant, he knew that I was moving on from him, we didn't tell each other that we loved each other but we knew it. He was always upset with me, always said "I don't want to talk to you." in an upset voice, got angry with me 24/7, kept on hitting me, said he didn't care how I felt about him, kept on trying to make me jealous by flirting with other people, we were in a love hate relationship, he was bi + married and too scared to come out to me, it was very upsetting for us.

    I think these older men struggle, a lot of the gay community struggle, a lot of young gays struggle to find someone and struggle to come out of the closet, it's even harder for older men that like younger men, they struggle to find love.

    Is that true? I think there's something I'm not understanding because older people never present their emotions, I never see older people cry. I fail to understand what older people are like, they always cover their true selves up.

    They all seem to get worked up over the smallest things, they delete me as a friend to take it out on me, they get upset all the time, play mind games, cold shoulder, try to make me jealous.

    I too have some deep emotional issues, deep down I feel as if there's something missing, I haven't found someone yet, I'm torn deep down and from seeing other people together it's painful. I wouldn't be surprised if they were feeling the same way too.
     
    #1 BearLover, Sep 4, 2014
  2. LD579

    LD579
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    To answer the title question, I'm sure some of them do, just as some people of all types struggle emotionally. It could be that you're running into these types of people because of the method that you're using to meet and connect with people.
     
    #2 LD579, Sep 5, 2014
  3. resu

    resu
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    Compared to some of your previous threads, this seems to be the most honest one yet. It takes a lot to acknowledge challenges and frustrations. Have you ever tried talking to a counselor?

    You might think about why you're specifically attracted to older men. Somewhere else you posted about teasing straight men. Just from how you write, you seem to view them as objects to desire and attract rather than three dimensional beings. What good is it to attract many and be abandoned by them all? Have you tried going out with guys of your age?

    As for your boss, is he really bi? Has he done anything with you?
     
    #3 resu, Sep 5, 2014
  4. Chip

    Chip
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    Hi.

    This has got to be difficult for you. I echo Luthan's comments that it likely has to do in part with where you are meeting them

    But an even bigger part of this is not that *older men* as a whole are emotionally unavailable, but *older men who are attracted to and seeking out younger men* are far, far more likely to have emotional, and psychological issues, for the simple reason that most emotionally healthy older men are going to be interested in people close to their own age.

    This is one of the many challenges with age gap relationships, and unfortunately, there isn't much way around it, except for working on yourself and seeing if, by doing so your own attractions move toward a healthier palace or simply looking for the 1in 10000 (number pulled from my ass) emotionally healthy older guy who is also not manipulative, controlling, abusive or otherwise incapable of sustaining a healthy relationship.
     
    #4 Chip, Sep 6, 2014
  5. shinji

    shinji Guest

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    Well, allow me to say this as a 27 year old guy who is into younger guys...

    I have my problems, but they are definitely not something ground breaking, that most other people don't already have. I just think that to people in a relationship, age difference should not be an issue, unless one or both of the parties involved make it such.

    Also, being the older one in a relationship does not automatically mean that you are a controlling, manipulative and abusive. It just means you had more time to get life experience (whether you actually do have more or not is another question), than the other person involved.

    All that being said, i do think the OP (who was banned, why?!) should stop trying to find faults in others and concentrate more on himself and his own expectations. I can't help but feel that he is a bit shallow and easily misunderstood, for whatever reason.

    Just my thoughts...
     
    #5 shinji, Sep 6, 2014
  6. Chip

    Chip
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    Except that the data and experience of many who have been in those situations doesn't generally support that view.

    And to qualify further, it depends on the relative ages of the people and the size of the gap. A 16 year old and a 19 year old may work fine, but a 27 year old and a 20 year old probably will not. A 42 year old and a 29 year old will likely be fine; a 36 year old and a 23 year old probably not. There are exceptions, but from what we know, they are rare.

    I realize it is unpopular to highlight this issue with many, but ignoring the realities doesn't really help anyone. Also, to be clear, it isn't my intent to shame anyone who is in such a relationship, but simply to point out what we know. And in general, what often comes with those age gaps are the power imbalances, life stage differences, money/resource differences and other factors that add onto the already-present list of potential barriers to a healthy relationship. Are their circumstances where those can be overcome? Certainly. Is it common? Unfortunately, no.

    On the issue of the OP's ban, the staff doesn't discuss the reasons for such actions, but it was not related to this thread.
     
    #6 Chip, Sep 6, 2014
  7. shinji

    shinji Guest

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    I realize what you are saying and i do agree that this is the "common" perception people have for these types of relationships, but...

    This goes contrary to like, 75% of the manga i've read so i refuse to believe it!

    Seriously though, is it really that hard to maintain a relationship where there is such a big age difference, what makes 20 to 27 worse than 29 to 42? Just the job, social status?! Material things...?

    Basically, if i understand it correctly. You are saying that a 42 year old and a 29 year old can have a stable relationship because both of them would have a job, place to live, career, maybe a car, etc...? As opposed to a 20 year old and a 27 year old?

    So going by this... love is based on material possessions?

    If the older guy is okay with the younger guy's "situation" and vice versa, there should be no problem right? Because, why would that be important? I mean... when paying for example, just split the check, obviously some compromises should be made but... a deal breaker?! I don't think so. Plus... what if the younger guy is far more successful than the older guy?! Would that also not work but on a reverse principle?!

    Should i just ask for people's net worth before i go out with them?

    How do these things equate into a personal relationship!? I seriously fail to see why people would pay attention to such stuff. Then again, i'm jobless, dropped out of school and the car i drive is cheaper than my Notebook (but damn is it fast, like 200km/h easy on the highway, Probe FTW!).

    Gues there is no such thing as "true love" then? Now i'll know to not bother looking for it.
    ^somewhat sarcastic :kiss:

    P.S. - on the ban thing, really don't care, i'm sure he deserved it and from what i can tell the administration of this website is top notch! Just wanted to acknowledge that i did notice it when typing my reply to the thread.
     
    #7 shinji, Sep 6, 2014
  8. Chip

    Chip
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    Basically, if i understand it correctly. You are saying that a 42 year old and a 29 year old can have a stable relationship because both of them would have a job, place to live, career, maybe a car, etc...? As opposed to a 20 year old and a 27 year old?

    So going by this... love is based on material possessions? [/quote]

    Uh, no. That has pretty much nothing to do with it. The differences are stage-of-life and power and control issues. Most people who are 20 are not fully independent, are either still in school or in relatively lower-tier/lower wage jobs, are just beginning to get a handle on what they will be doing with their lives. Many more 27 year olds have a much clearer idea of where their life path is taking them, often they have more stability and focus about life and career.

    The principal problem (though their are others) is that with this imbalance in life experience/control, it is very easy for the younger person to either become emotionally dependent on or look up to the older one as a mentor/caretaker. Mentors are good things and can be very helpful. But having a mentor who is also a boyfriend is a terrible idea, as it is mixing roles and boundaries.

    There are, of course, exceptions.. There are 27 year olds who are ski bums and have no direction and no money, and 20 year olds who are well established, know what they want, and are stable. But even in that case... you can have the reverse problem where the 27 year old feels uncomfortable or intimidated by someone 7 years younger who "has it together" and that can create shame and difficulties in the relationship.

    It's a complex and nuanced issue, but it is well understood and pretty widely recognized for the issues above and others. Does this mean that no one has age-gap relationships? Definitely not. Unfortunately, most of them range from mildly to really dramatically unhealthy.

    No, for the reasons stated above.

    There certainly is, but for true love to happen and the relationship to be healthy and last, both parties have to be emotionally healthy, vulnerable, reasonable balance, and either have really good communication skills, or a commitment to working on them.
     
    #8 Chip, Sep 6, 2014
  9. shinji

    shinji Guest

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    I’m desperately trying to not roll back into desperation after reading your thoughts.

    Okay so… you are basically telling me that it’s not possible or very unlikely for such a relationship to exist, where one person is 27 years old and the other one is 18-20-22 years old?

    I think you are missing something here, you say that the younger person can start to look up to the older one but wouldn’t that require the older one to treat the younger one in such a way as to leave such an impression in the younger one. If both parties understand the difference between mentorship and a relationship… should this problem arise?

    Furthermore, I have a strong feeling that most problems in such relationships could occur only if the older guy exhibits some kind of superiority in front of the younger guy, regardless of whether intentional or not. If both parties do not respect each other equally then that could also be a trigger that can change the relationship into what you described.

    I’ve never had a boyfriend, so I can’t speak with absolute certainty on the matter, but… I have friends, and a lot of them are younger than me. I’ve never felt that I was like a mentor to them, we discuss stuff and they act with me (and I with them) as if we were the same age, it’s simply not an issue. How can that be if what you say holds true?

    Let’s look at it this way, a 35 year old guy and a 50 year old guy, how is that better?! I’d imagine the older guy in this situation would be thinking about completely different stuff than the 35 year old guy. Because (to put it bluntly) he will be closer to the end of his life.

    Even if what you say is considered “the popular opinion” I just don’t agree with it. It all comes down to the mentality of both parties involved. And… why would age difference be a reason for arguments? How unstable would a relationship be if it could be so easily ruined by some meaningless arguments over superficial stuff?

    On a side note, how do you think all this relates to the "roles" in the intimate life of a hypothetical couple with a big age difference? Should the older guy always be active and the younger one be passive? Why can't it be reversed? Or better yet, why not both of them passive, or active?

    Okay, nice chat, going to go eat cookies! :kiss:
     
    #9 shinji, Sep 7, 2014
  10. Chip

    Chip
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    Yes.

    It's almost inherent, and that's what leads to the issues I described above.

    The imbalance is pretty inherent because of the combination of life experience differences and other stability issues. It has little or nothing to do with the older person consciously exhibiting superiority; it's simply a byproduct of those differences. Now, as I said, the reverse situation is also possible (a very experienced/worldly younger person and a less-experienced older one) but as I said above, in those cases, most commonly the older person ends up feeling inadequate/incompetent/insecure because this person 7 years younger (or whatever) is so much more accomplished.

    Friendships and relationships are completely different; the dynamics, interactions, and nature of the communications aren't the same. Intergenerational friendships can be very close and meaningful; it is when you add the relationship piece that it typically becomes problematic.

    Now, as I said above, there are exceptions, but if we are talking about genuinely healthy relationships, those exceptions are rare because those power/control/life experience differences almost always play in, and when both parties really are at the same level, as I mentioned before, usually the older one feels uncomfortable and inadequate.


    Yes, there can be simiar problems with age-gap relationships among older people as well, but they tend to be more in the realm of life-stage issues rather than the combination of life-stage plus power/control/stability/life-competence issues. What we know based on some interesting data samples by a group that's looking at data from studies and from a major dating site (they haven't published yet; these findings are preliminary) is that to the extent age-gap relationships work at all, they are far more successful when the younger person is over 30.

    Totally your choice, but it isn't opinion, it's basically the combined knowledge of many, many professionals working in the field with individual clients and many other people who have studied the issue. I can disagree with the sky being blue, but that doesn't change it's color :slight_smile:

    It's not about arguments; it is about fundamental elements of connection, compatibility, communication, mutual respect and balance, and common understanding which form the core elements of healthy relationships.

    If you are talking purely about topping vs bottoming, to my knowledge, there is zero correlation between that and other factors, and it has no bearing whatsoever on the overall issues.

    To sum up: What I have found is that when people really start doing the (often difficult and scary) self-work about what's drawing them to any specific people, whether it's an age difference or people that are emotionally distant, or unhealthy, or whatever it may be... then a lot of things start to change, including finding yourself attracted to healthier people in a better balanced situation. Even there... the other person has to be willing to do their own work, and worth together, to make the relationship work and last in the long term. But at the end of the day, it is all worth it because what you end up with is a strong, healthy relationship built on mutual respect and trust and a deep understanding of each other.
     
    #10 Chip, Sep 7, 2014
  11. shinji

    shinji Guest

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    Yes, well... The sky is not actually blue, it is the way our eyes perceive a specific range of the spectrum that we think it is blue. I dabble in IR photography and let me tell you, in that spectrum the sky is anything but blue. Also Coca-Cola is transparent, here's something you probably didn't know. :kiss:

    Not really fond of the whole sex stuff, as suggested by my description. Nope, i was talking about being active vs being passive as in... Will it matter for example if the older guy initiated erhm... the "love making" as opposed to the younger guy, and vice versa? Like in japanese manga, you always have the "pushy", more "manly" (for lack of a better description) guy and then you have the more... erhm... reverse of that, guy.

    So you are basically telling me that i won't find happiness if i allow myself to start a relationship with a guy that is significantly younger than me? I know you probably won't understand this since our mindsets are different but, i just... don't feel attracted to older people, it's like... they are very boring and dull and have no sense of humor and never understand my sarcasm and usually don't even bother taking care of themselves and are always way too serious about everything. Does that mean i'm doomed to be alone forever? I can't accept that, despite all your scientists and data and stuff... :icon_sad:

    Maybe... "settling" is the only option?

    I've actually had to re-read the whole thread to make sure i wasn't missing anything. You have really helped me see stuff from a different perspective, which is always a good thing. Even going to copy/paste this for later reading.

    Now, next thing you're going to tell me is, true love doesn't exist?
    ^being sarcastic (i know it's obvious but, people tell me it isn't so i make a point to say it is...).

    Speaking about true love, in your honest opinion... Do you think it is possible to fall in love for a guy just by seeing him and as slim as the chances for this are, what if he also falls in love with you. Should age difference be a deal breaker? Obviously, both parties should get to know one another, which could ruin the whole thing but... at the spur of the moment, what do you think? :eusa_doh:

    If a younger guy falls in love with me should i allow myself to return said love back or should i stay clear?
    If a older guy falls in love with me should i... basically what i wrote above?

    When do you KNOW that you should "settle" and start a relationship and when not to? What if a guy is ugly but has a great personality, what if it's the reverse? What if he has both a great look, great personality but is younger? And how young is too young? Who actually comes up with the specific numbers?

    Like for example, i'm 27 years old... Are 16 year old guys too young? Obviously (don't want to do jail + they look like kids :sleep:slight_smile:. What about 18 year olds?... 22 year old? 24?... 26? Well i guess 26 would be okay, but what about 25?

    Do you see the point i'm trying to make? :eusa_naug
     
    #11 shinji, Sep 7, 2014
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