So, my question here is this is what I WANT to say, in the continuation of the lovely conversation I've been having with my relation that is posted partially in an earlier post and in its entirety in my blog on here... Is it too harsh? Should I just give up now and just block her? Or should I stand up for myself? (knowing that I may have to deal with her at family reunions or the such) Be warned: my reply is practically an essay so if you don't want to read it thats okay. here is her most recent rebuttal: "I not hating on anyone, I'm just letting everyone know I think its wrong... As you think its right, and want to tell me and the rest of the world.... I am not judging anyone or anything... I think the definition of marriage should be what the bible says it is, because if GOD really loves it when two people come together in love (any two people) then he owes Sodom and Gomora an apology............. BTW what religion where you raised in?? Because I thought we were all (in our particular family) raised in the same religion with the same GOD, and No (you are right) not everyone in America has the same views. But as you say, you can marry anyone whom you love enough to share a life with (but thisstatement could aslo mean that you view Bigomy, and Incest, and Pedifellia as marryable) Am I not right?, This is what it come down too... Marriage Equally.... This is the subject we are debating, if homosexuals are allowed to marry.. Then we should allow anyone else who LOVES as much to Marry including those that are currently in multiple relationships, those that are too close in family, and those that where one is too young and one is too old (by law) this is what I am saying.., and I do not appreciate that everyone accuse me of hate and discrimation, when there us none!!!!!!!" This is what I want to reply: If marriage were a concept that only applied to Christians, and only affected matters that involved the church, I would whole-heartedly agree that marriage should be governed by the Bible. However, given that marriage is both a civil and religious institution, which requires the permission of the government, in a country where there is a separation of church and state, to have marriage follow the tenants of the Bible would impinge on those who either do not believe in the Bible or who have a different interpretation of the Bible. I do not ask that any religious person change their faith to accommodate me. I will not ask, for example, a paster of a denomination that does not allow for same sex marriage to perform a same sex marriage. I whole-heartedly respect the rights of the church to still discriminate against same-sex couples, so far as purely religious matters are concerned. HOWEVER, I demand all the same rights, benefits, and responsibilities in the eyes of the civil law to be afforded to me regardless of the gender of my spouse. The rights I demand are including but not limited to the following: Tax Benefits Filing joint income tax returns with the IRS and state taxing authorities. Creating a "family partnership" under federal tax laws, which allows you to divide business income among family members. Estate Planning Benefits Inheriting a share of your spouse's estate. Receiving an exemption from both estate taxes and gift taxes for all property you give or leave to your spouse. Creating life estate trusts that are restricted to married couples, including QTIP trusts, QDOT trusts, and marital deduction trusts. Obtaining priority if a conservator needs to be appointed for your spouse -- that is, someone to make financial and/or medical decisions on your spouse's behalf. Government Benefits Receiving veterans' and military benefits for spouses, such as those for education, medical care, or special loans. Receiving public assistance benefits. Employment Benefits Obtaining insurance benefits through a spouse's employer. Taking family leave to care for your spouse during an illness. Receiving wages, workers' compensation, and retirement plan benefits for a deceased spouse. Taking bereavement leave if your spouse or one of your spouse's close relatives dies. Medical Benefits Visiting your spouse in a hospital intensive care unit or during restricted visiting hours in other parts of a medical facility. Making medical decisions for your spouse if he or she becomes incapacitated and unable to express wishes for treatment. Death Benefits Consenting to after-death examinations and procedures. Making burial or other final arrangements. Family Benefits Filing for stepparent or joint adoption. Applying for joint foster care rights. Receiving equitable division of property if you divorce. Receiving spousal or child support, child custody, and visitation if you divorce. Consumer Benefits Receiving family rates for health, homeowners', auto, and other types of insurance. Receiving tuition discounts and permission to use school facilities. Other consumer discounts and incentives offered only to married couples or families. Not one of these rights have anything to do with the church or the Bible, but instead the civil law of the land. Marriage, as defined currently by the civil law in this great nation, is a contract between two people that affords the above rights (among others). As this contract is between TWO people, any current marriages must be made void in order to enter into a new marriage agreement. This contract of marriage may stand alone, or in conjunction with a religious ceremony that denotes an announcement before the diety(s) of the participants choice and their family and friends of their intent. The religious ceremony alone does not afford the above legal rights. Those of a certain degree of relation are not allowed to enter into this institution, and neither is anyone who is not legally able to enter into legal agreements (such as a minor without the approval of their parents/legal guardians). Also, I was raised to believe in a loving, just Lord. I believe in a Lord who broke bread with the least desirable of society at the time. I believe in a Lord who came to save the world, not condemn it. I believe in a Lord who demands not just blind faith, but action, and a constant journey towards his love. And though I am not “everyone” I would like to clarify what exactly I have accused you of in the course of this conversation. I have on multiple occasions accused you of logical fallacy. I have accused you of speaking without thought to whom hateful words, or words that can seem hateful regardless of intent, might hurt. Lastly, I have accused you of engaging in bigotry, with in and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing. I have several subjects that I am very bigoted about, personally. Your personal faith causes you to believe that homosexuality is a sin. I have absolutely no problem with that belief, nor with your expression of it. What I would like to encourage you in is proudly announcing your belief, without trying to justify it using logical fallacies. Faith need not be justified by logic, indeed it cannot be. On a completely side note from the rest of this conversation, I would like to point out that the reason that the Lord rained sulfer down upon Sodom and Gomorrah is not exclusively homosexuality. Indeed, there is the element of the condemnation of homosexual rape- with is indeed very different than love. On top of that, that story may not be the best to use in your argument, as after fleeing Sodom, Lot procreated with his daughters, one documented child to each, and these children went on to become the fathers of the Moabites and Ammonites, with no punishment towards Lot for incest. And since the biblical definition of marriage has been brought up, I would like to mention a few points. As Adam and Eve were, according to the Bible, the first humans, than marriage between siblings (or at least sex) would have been necessary for humanity to continue. Also, when Noah loaded his arc and the rest of humanity (presumably) perished, that would have left the largest gap in relations being cousins, so incest seems pretty okay in the bible. As far as bigamy (or polygamy should there be more than two wives) Lets look at just the book of Genesis. Do the names Abraham, Jacob, or Esau ring a bell? They were all polygamists. And pedophilia? By most scholar’s opinions, Rebecca was three (yes THREE) years old when she entered into marriage with Issac, the son of Abraham. So, by the U.S. law, there are stricter constraints on incest, bigamy, and pedophilia. But then again, this was all taken from the Old Testament. Thank goodness we are Christians, who follow the teachings of Christ, right?
