I found this forum after a Google search. I found some info, but it didn't quite match up to my situation. My partner and I have been together for over 8 years. We have a house, dog, share some finances, etc. I'm out and he's not. Before him I never vowed to be with another closeted person due to the previous experience I had, but I guess that's how the cookie crumbled, again! My situation is unique because he's from Italy, and I'm from the USA. I've never met a member of his family, I've never met a friend (except one that is also gay and closeted), a co-worker, no one - here or there. He literally tells his co-workers that he's married to a woman. When he's on the phone he tells them that he's with his 'wife'. Honestly, it's a bit degrading; I feel less of a person to him every single time I hear that. To his family in Italy, he lives alone, with our dog. He refuses to let them visit, and I am not allowed to go there. I have begged for each and every year to go and just introduce me as a friend, and he will not let me. I have wanted to go to Italy with him instead of by myself. His answer is, how can I go to my country without visiting my parents? How do I explain to them I came and did not see them? So I've been there once, alone. It's a beautiful place and I would love to go again. He even owns a condo in Venice. I've never been to it. He only allows me to speak to his closeted friend that barely speaks English. So we don't converse much. I know it exists, because he's had the keys shipped to the friend to stay there. I thought he was lying for years. Our entire relationship, I feel, had been shroud in secrecy. I think there's more to things there than he leads on. It goes beyond him not being out to his family. Sad thing is, it happens here. I'm 'the wife' no one has ever met. At this point, I'm tired. I've attempted to communicate with him, but he accuses me of wanting to argue, and I'm being selfish for telling him my feelings and not allowing him to live his life the way he wants. If anyone finds out he says he may lose his job (untrue), or his dad may die because he's old (probably still untrue because he will outlive us all). He comes up with every excuse in the book not to validate or listen to my concerns. I'm 33 now, my self esteem at this point is low. I love him, but I don't think I can continue at this rate. I'm not asking him to officially COME OUT, but stop telling others I'm your wife. Let me meet someone in your family. He's met everyone in mine, and they know exactly who he is. Funny thing is, after the marriage ruling, he asked, "Are we going to get married?" I replied that I didn't know. He won't have a soul there anyway even if we decided to. Am I being selfish? Is it time for me to hang up this relationship? How would you feel? -darkfiber
First and foremost - No, you are not being selfish. In my experience, accusing someone of selfishness if they express any desire to be anything other than a doormat is simply a rather crude rhetorical trick that some people try to employ to manipulate others into bending to their will. It seems to be based in the notion that selfishness is somehow a cardinal sin or something for which we should all instantly feel total embarrassment and an overwhelming desire to back down and apologize profusely for having the temerity to think or want something for ourselves. You should never allow someone to pull this sort of thing with you. Of course, being human, it is certainly possible for you to engage in selfish behavior, just like anyone else. But in this case, you certainly aren't doing so. Regarding your situation - Obviously I can't know all the specifics of your entire relationship and dynamic with your partner based on one post. But based on my own experience (3 relationships: 2 serious enough to live together, one lasting about 3 years, the other (and last) lasting most of 19yrs now and made official last December when SSM became legal in our state) I can tell you that a relationship should be something that, overall and most of the time, lifts you up rather than drags you down. No one is perfect and anyone you meet will probably have at least one habit or quirk that can drive you up a wall. But overall, they will make you feel like more than you are, like they support you in pretty much everything, like you are uplifted by having a relationship with them. If that feeling ends - worse, if it is replaced by the feeling that they are pulling you down (or worst of all - tearing you down), then it is probably time to be giving that relationship some serious thought, including thinking about whether or not it can continue. Based on what you've said so far, it sounds like you've spent 8 yrs accommodating your partner's fears (and the lie he's living) while he's done nothing to either accommodate you or change the dynamic of his life (change jobs to a more accepting company, make mutual friends you're both out to, etc.), or indicate any plan to make such a change. That is pretty unacceptable in my book. Ultimately the decision is up to you, but my advice would be to talk to him and let him know that the current situation is no longer acceptable. You will not be treated as a shameful secret any longer and he needs to make some changes. Whether that means a complete and total turnaround over some agreed upon period of time, changing your circumstances in some ways (jobs, location, friends, whatever) while not in others (not being out to his family), or whatever, is something you will need to decide. But at the end of the day, you also need to be prepared for him to refuse to compromise or change - and to know what you are prepared to do if that happens. And then do it. My 2c worth, Todd
Agree with Todd. There's much HE can do to accommodate you but he isn't even trying! You seem to be saddled with all the acceptance and adjustment. Not fair, I'd say!
Eight years is a long time and if it's reached the point where your self esteem is taking a battering, something has to give. It's not merely a case of requesting change from your partner, you need to require it. It's certainly not selfish of you. Requiring change doesn't mean setting ultimatums or indulging in blame and argument, but it does mean working together, making compromises and reaching agreement about the way forward - for both of you. This can only be achieved by talking and that's what you really need to require from your partner - a willingness to talk. If he flatly refuses to engage, then you are in trouble because it's clear that the status quo cannot continue. What you really need to do is meet each other half way. You need to understand his fears and feelings of shame and anxiety, but he needs to understand how painful it is for you to hear him deny your existence to some people (family) or refer to you as the "wife" at work. To bridge the divide I would strongly recommend engaging the services of a relationship counsellor/therapist who understands things from an LGBT perspective. It might be your best hope.
Personally, I agree with Patrick, including about relationship counseling. Normally I would say, if one person is really bothered by something, and the other isn't even bothering with thinking about changing it, then it's a problem - but of course, in this case, it has to be balanced out against letting him come out (or not) on his own terms - specifically, his own Italian terms, which may be very different from yours in the States, even accounting for differences in families and such. The only thing I wanted to add - I'm guessing the relationship started under these circumstances, as well (him not being out to his family/co-workers, not wanting to be), so, what has changed? Granted, time and simple wear may be a big factor, but at some point this was worth looking past for you. Why was it worth it to look past this, and is anything else different now?
as bad as i feel for you imagine what he must be going through but he could also stay with you in america and be accepted. just a thought.
Hi Darkfiber, I am new to this forum, I was just browsing around and found your post. I cannot presume to know much about dating and relationships. Being half-italian myself, I guess I can give you some sense a couple of cultural issues. Regarding same-sex relationships, Italy is quite backwards, especially if you compare with Spain--that now only has SSM but has a generally more accepting attitude towards gays. So I can imagine how hard it is for him to come out even to his inner circle (full disclosure: I am only with a foot out of the closet). So I guess I can understand his stand of being very deep into the closet. However, I tend to agree with the rest of the people in the forum: not only your are not being selfish but actually, in my opinion, you are exactly right in looking after your interests. If you don't look after your interests, who will? If this situation makes you unhappy (and I can understand how being the "wife" and participating in the whole charade can be frustrating), I think there is nothing wrong with bringing it up. He might not even know how frustrating the whole situation is for you. I would also try to figure out exactly what exactly you'd expect him to do about it and try to take it from there, step by step. I hope it is useful...
