Sensitive people are so difficult

Sure you are not the only one in here who is tired of the SJW crap that is so prevalent now-a-days. At this point I should probably mention that I'm not from the States so you can get some perspective. In here it feels like it's the so called "conservatives" who are more open-minded than so called "liberals" in here. I'm member of a conservative party's youth wing in my own country although I'm not that active politically. But it's good to know future MPs, you know. The irony is that virtually all key people in the youth league's top leadership and management are gay or bisexual and members of the league take no particular interest in your sexuality. You can tell them you are gay and they will just shrug. You certainly won't be "celebrated" but definitely not bashed either which I kind of like. The youth leagues of the more "progressive" parties treat members (sexual) minorities like some kind of totems of "otherness" which I find awkward. And they have this whole sensitivity BS. It's like in the Soviet Union, you must carefully watch what you say and more importantly how you say it. No rational debate is possible as people respond to rational arguments with emotional ones and everyone seems to think this is valid way of discussing.

I don't know how to advice with sensitive friends. All my friends can take "insensitive" jokes. I make jokes about my middle eastern friends being terrorist or towel head and they respond by making nazi jokes about me. A one close middle eastern friend calls me a "nigger" which is kind of funny as I'm as white as you can be). So I guess this drives out the more "sensitive" types. In my view you are better off without the super sensitives. I mean if you cannot take a joke, you should say it straight, I apologize and we move on. Not being a passive-aggressive bitch who walks out of your life.

 

People are just different. I'm like you, nothing really offends me, and I love to joke around a lot. I've found that my best friends are people who I can literally make any joke to because we're just those people. And then there are those people I know who I would never joke around with or say certain things to, because they will take it the wrong way. It's just s matter of knowing your audience.

I'll say that I see nothing wrong with what you said. But then I spent most of yesterday telling friends I was being Jewish this Christmas cause I just went to the movies and had Chinese food. My one Jewish friend text me saying, "Nice! Welcome to Team Jew, Shugga. I'll make sure you get your welcome basket of diamonds, bankers bonds and matzah soon." I'm sure I know other people who wouldn't have joked back with me about it though.

 

Yeah, I think that there is such a thing as being too sensitive around these things - just too prepared for extreme political correctness. It irritates me a lot, even though I generally consider myself liberal. The thing is, if we can't have an honest dialogue about who's right, who's wrong, and what those two terms mean, then no one wins!

 

I am a HSP -- highly sensitive person. We need more kindness in this world.

 

The reason one will lose a friend over something like this usually isn't because of the remark itself, but it's how they deal with it afterwards. Labelling someone as over sensitive, too politically correct, and liberal, just from their reaction to a certain joke that they didn't find funny, is what would make me lose interest in that person, to be honest.

There is a reason why some people don't find certain jokes funny, and those reasons are as legitimate as your reason for finding the jokes funny. It's not as simple as being a "social justice warrior", and it certainly is not "dishonesty". If you do really find it sad to lose a friend over this, then I suggest exploring his side by having some respect.

I personally enjoy many types of humor but jokes are not "just a joke". Humor plays a significant role in shaping society by determining what can be laughed at and what can be normalized. Also, the problem is not just the joke itself. It's about who says it: from which position of power is this person stating the joke, and what level of awareness they have. The same joke will sound completely different depending on the awareness. I know you are just venting here, and I know it can be annoying to deal with people who tell you how funny you're not, I hope you will continue thinking about this and not just conclude that there are overly sensitive people out there who are difficult to deal with.

 

So just to be clear, the person that you were intimate with is also the person who got mad and left? Because if so, yeah, that was pretty poor judgment on your part. I can definitely see how he could have gotten offended, and without knowing exactly what you said and how you said it, it's difficult to side with you.

I'm happy you didn't actually had intent to hurt him but maybe, you should apologize and ask how he feels. I think if you're genuine that he will come around and let you know what you did so you can avoid that in the futuree. Not everyone can talk immediately after something happens, just give it a while.

I stay away from racist and inflammatory jokes just because the majority of them I don't find funny, if a friend is going to make fun of his own background/race/culture then I'll laugh with them and I'll likewise make fun of myself as well but there is a time and a place for all of that.

 

Even if its a joke--you have to keep in mind certain wording or phrases or even slight racism can bring back bad memories. It couldn't even be exactly you that hurt him, just needed time to get himself together...you never know what kind of shit a person has been through. Jewish people get a ton of hate, keep that in mind. You never know what hes dealt with that day, week or year. It could seem sensitive and suddenly because it could have been building up in him for a while.

 

It's times like this where you have to put your empathy hat on and figure out what's bothering them. While this may seemed like a harmless remark, it was obviously offensive to them. It's very much like saying, "Wow. You're attractive for an Asian." I would personally find that offensive. I'm not sure what it's like being you, but when you're part of a minority and you're hearing stereotypes about you all the time, it's a huge slap in the face when your own friend brings it up, thinking that it's funny.

It's not. It's very hurtful, and I recommend that you be sensitive to these kinds of things if you want to maintain this friendship.

Although, based on the reasonings you're giving us, it sounds like you're trying to justify what you did, and justify not maintaining this relationship. If he's not a good friend, fine, but please own up to what you said and don't try to turn it around. Be less insensitive and be more mindful of what you're saying. You may not see it now, but trust me - it'll help you in the long run.

 

Well, good luck with your empathy hat approach. People are so different and their concepts of what is offensive is different that it is virtually impossible to avoid offending someone at some way without reducing yourself to a "politician" who never actually says anything. Personally I operate under the assumption that my friends do not try to purposely offend or make me feel sad even if they say something that I don't like. If they do that I try to reflect why the things they said made me feel bad in the first place. If I feel that my feelings are justified then I tell directly my friends about how their comment made me feel. Invariably they have always said they are sorry and we have moved on.

You do you know that it's fairly common among good or close friends, especially among men, to make offensive jokes about each other and try to "bust each others balls" so to speak? There is an important social function for it. It serves to test the friendship and build a mutual bond. By being overly sensitive about these kinds of jokes signals that your friendship is not on strong basis and perhaps that you are not comfortable with yourself either.

Let's take your "attractive for Asian" example. Why would you feel offended? Assuming it was not said as an offense I would interpret it as 1) who said that thinks you are attractive and 2) in their opinion Asians are not typically attractive. Both are purely subjective stances and you cannot argue about them. Are you offended on behalf of other Asians? If so, why? Do you think the person on purpose thinks Asians are unattractive? Or that he has any control over it?

Another important point is this. Would you feel comfortable being around person who is easily offended even when you don't mean any offense - and now-a-days even more commonly if that person gets offended on someone else's behalf? Is it fun to hang out with such a person if you have to tiptoe all the time?

One final point. Imagine you had a group of friends. They would make insulting jokes about each other but not about. With you they would be extra sensitive not to say anything offensive but to each others they would know no bounds. Would you be happy? Would you feel included? I wouldn't. What the friends would be saying is that they don't think I can handle their jokes and that they don't think I feel close to them.

 

Well, I'll say that insensitive people that post stuff like this are so difficult, then. >__>

 

I think you are I share very similar views on this. I'm tired of the SJW stuff and just think people get too easily offended. A friend of mine who's super-liberal started crying over some argument that gradually escalated because she couldn't agree that giving someone a cup labeled "white tears" as a gift is not a good thing to do... Long story short, I definitely understand your point of view.

I would say the best advice I could give you is that if you do offend someone so badly, you can apologize for hurting their feelings. However, you can make it clear you didn't think it would offend them so much and you didn't mean to come off in a bad way. I, personally, love offensive jokes. But I understand that those kinds of jokes would make some people feel uncomfortable. Don't let your friendship slip away because of something so trivial. You can easily sort this kind of thing out. You know, my friend and I (and my other friends) still hold somewhat bitter feelings on the matter of political correctness. However, there's a lot I'm holding in, and I'd rather not let a friendship slip away because of a trivial matter. I just kind of suck it up because not everyone shares my type of humor.

 

... I'm not quite sure what we're disagreeing on with this point. I agree - if you find something offensive, tell your friends. It's expected that you're going to offend someone sooner or later, so it's impossible to be mindful and sensitive about every little thing.

However, as a friend, it's expected that you learn about their triggers and what deeply offends them, so that you don't say it again. That's how deep friendships form.

As for the luck, I've had a lot of luck with this approach and have formed close friendships. And while I have offended people before, I've owned up to what I said and learned from my mistake. At the same time, if something offends me, I tell my friend so they don't piss me off. It's a learning experience for everyone.

But again, I don't know what we're disagreeing with.

Just like you said how everyone is different, all friendships are different. To assume that everyone friendship flourishes on how much you can insult each other without pissing each other off isn't right. It's presumptuous and very close-minded. If you only want to build friendships from this way, then that's fine, but you can't be mad at someone who doesn't prefer to go with this route.

I would be offended because I very closely identify with Asian, and all aspects of it. It's who I am. To say that I'm physically attractive, but in general, my race is unattractive, is offensive to me. It's like saying, "The rest of your family is ugly, but you're the only good looking one."

If you love your family, wouldn't you be offended by this?

Perhaps you can't see this because you identify loosely with your ethnic group, but I'm just making a guess.

You're assuming that every group is like this. It's not. Would I feel left out? Of course, but you wouldn't find me in a group like this, anyway.

Don't get me wrong - there is such a thing as being overly sensitive. When you're offended by every little thing, that's being overly sensitive, and no one likes to be with someone who has skin as thin as paper.

However, there is nothing wrong with being sensitive about certain things. Your friends will learn this overtime, and you will learn what triggers them overtime. You can still have fun and joke around, but jokes are meant to be funny, and if someone doesn't find it funny, then what would be the point of it?

My point is: The OP should see it from that person's point of view instead of dismissing them as overly sensitive. and I was creating an analogy to (hopefully) help them understand.

 

I don't think we actually disagree. Perhaps you didn't read all posts from the OP when you wrote this? From your previous post I got the idea that in your opinion OP should not have joked in the first place. He told in a later message he apologized to his friend but his friend did not accept the apology. And I got the impression that in your view this was not enough.

Indeed and I'm not disagreeing with that. The reason why I explained the role of insults in friendships is because based on your comment you sounded like a guy who upon overhearing me making a terrorist joke on a muslim friend rushes over to give me lecture on sensitivity without considering my relationship to my friend. Actually my culture makes much greater distinction between different types of friendships than American/English culture does. In my language there are 3 or 4 different words which all mean different types and levels of friendship but they all are translated to english as "friend" or "friendship". Naturally you don't make offensive jokes in "lower" level friendships.

Well, I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this. I've been told that same phrase many times (and told that I'm ugly too on their beauty standards) and I never felt offended because most of the times I knew it was not meant as an insult. And even when it was meant as an insult it said more about the person who said it than about me.

If someone called my family ugly, sure I might not like it, but assuming it was an honest non-confrontational statement (suppose they didn't think of the implications) but I would not be offended. After all, it is a subjective view and no one can decided who they consider attractive and who they don't.

Let me ask you this way, would you be offended if you overhear someone saying to someone else that you are attractive for Asian? I.e that person did not mean you to hear it and did not mean it as an offense but stated his honest opinion to someone else.

I don't really know what you mean to loosely or strongly identify with my race. I am conscious of my race but I don't feel that any perceived attack on my "race" or fellow member of my race is an attack on me personally.

See my point above.

Obviously it's perfectly fine to set boundaries but those boundaries must be clear to everyone. If you shoot everyone who crosses an invisible boundary pretty soon you will have no friends. Boundaries need to be visible so that people can adjust. Otherwise everyone will thread around you fearing they will cross some invisible barrier.

OP apologized and the other person did not respond. To me that sounds overly sensitive.

 

I think that's where we are different.

If someone said, "Wow. You're a good driver for an Asian." I would assume if you were in my position, you wouldn't take offense to that.

I would take it offensive to that because it's a crude generalization, and I've been a victim of these kinds of generalizations all my life. My character is judged based on prejudices that I have no control over. I would think that my friend would think that it's not OK to say something like that. And trust me - I've confronted a couple of friends for saying stuff like this (not necessarily the driving thing). I had a Texan friend who thought it was funny to say that she was surprised that I could see with my "slanty eyes". Not funny whatsoever.

Unless, of course, we're at that point where I'm comfortable with them saying such things, and I personally feel comfortable to exchange that banter. My best friend makes little sly Asian jokes, and I make fun of her for doing white girl things, but we know where the boundaries lie.

But like you said, there are different levels of friendship, and it's up to us as friends to figure out what the boundaries are.

I'm going off on a tangent, though.

Ah no, not at all. It's OK to make some jokes, for the points I've already mentioned before.

The main problem I had with the OP was that he made it sound like he was trying to make an excuse for his mistake, in a very unapologetic way.

I had an old best friend that used to do that all the time. "Well, I totally didn't mean it that way. It's not my fault you're too sensitive. I can say whatever the hell I want - free speech." etc etc.

I apologize, OP, if I categorized you with him, but that was the vibe I was getting from you, and that's why I wanted to tell you that empathy is a powerful thing. Understanding what other people are going through is a powerful thing.

I didn't want you to be like my old best friend, who unfortunately, now has no friends and wonders why he's alone all the time.

This comment I did not see. I only read your first post. I thought you just dismissed the friendship and was like, "Whatever, too sensitive." Sorry. I didn't know you actually apologized. It didn't sound like you did from your initial post.

 

No, I would not take any offense. (Is there a stereotype that Asians cannot drive?! Never heard of it.) Actually I hear a lot that "I'm friendly for [my nationality] or that I'm social for [my nationality]" and I don't feel offended at all. Also, I was once told that by a girl that we could not date because her parents taught that I'm of wrong race. For some reason I did not feel offended about that either. I just very baffled but could not take it personally.

Perhaps I'm not very sensitive to this because I grew up belonging to the primary culture and race of my country although I never really felt I fitted in very well. Or then because my parents taught me early on that everyone is an individual and should be treated as such and I kind of assume that most people think the same way.

I don't see anything wrong about making generalized statements as such if there is something to substantiate it. (I doubt there is any in case of Asian drivers.) Naturally it's wrong to make any conclusions on individuals based on generalizations. Me too have been subject to prejudice over attributes I have no control over although none of them have been race related. I was short for my age and people made all kinds of assumption based on that. I was skinny so people made assumptions based on that and so on. However, I cannot get upset about it even today if someone says something like that. Mostly I just laugh at their stupidity.

Yes, that is a very lame and childish joke indeed. Now, don't take this wrong way. I'm not trying to tell you which reason is justified to get upset and which is not. However, why do you feel upset about her comment? Assuming she meant no offense, doesn't her comment say more about her than about you? Does it make you uneasy if someone of different race makes it indirectly notes, perhaps by making this kind of a joke, that you are of different race? Does it matter if who said it is white or other minority group?

What about if someone said you are not so smart for an Asian (assuming that you are not dumb in general but compared to the stereotypical high achieving Asian)?

 

I would find the "attractive for an Asian" or any other examples given above to be super offensive. It's interesting how Euler does not find anything to be "offensive" per se, but rather dismisses them as idiocy. I think having that level of self-respect and confidence is admirable, and I understand appreciating a level of friendship where you can make certain jokes, but I think there is also very much a sense of naivete in that way of thinking.

Throughout the history of mankind, people have been oppressed, abused, and murdered through the ideologies expressed in those remarks. The tricky part is that people are often times not aware of the ideology behind it, but they just go along with it. However, just because one doesn't intend "any harm" doesn't exempt them of their harmful consequences. The old age saying: Road to hell is paved with good intentions, come to mind. One single person's comment may not have such a power, but as a collective ideology, it makes a huge impact that can lead to genocides and slavery. In that sense, some find it not only natural, but important to be sensitive about these comments that pertain to minorities and the marginalized. Yes, these comments still say more about the commenters than anything else, and it's good to not take it personally, but that doesn't mean it's ok to brush it off as it's nothing.

Euler, I guess the question I have is, does anything offend you then? Do you have a sense of justice? (I'm not at all being accusatory here, just in case it sounds like it. Justice is a very abstract and dogmatic concept). Are there collective issues that you take personally? Would you not defend your family or close friends if they were insulted? Or would you just tell them to let it go?

By the way, for the record, I don't do any of the "busting each other's balls" kind of banter with any of my close friends, but it is still possible to build deep relationships. Calling it a "significant social function" is definitely overhyping this mode of communication.