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Even more mixed signals? (Followup)

Discussion in 'Family, Friends, and Relationships' started by A Mindful Wolf, Apr 12, 2016.

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  1. A Mindful Wolf

    A Mindful Wolf Guest

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    Hi again...this is a followup to this thread : http://emptyclosets.com/forum/family-friends-relationships/210052-getting-mixed-signals-guy.html

    You don't need to read it, here's the TL;DR:
    Guy giving me signals for 3 months, finally speak, flirting, go out, had sex.

    It was awkward chatting to him after we got together. I didn't want to sound too clingy, because he had iterated that he views sex as separate from a relationship, so I avoided the overtly sexual jokes we had become accustomed too, not wanting to rock the boat (well, I would love if he loved me, but that's neither here nor there).
    THEN, out he comes with the same dirty talk as before, making a lot of hints that he would like to repeat our actions, which is basically him having an affair on his boyfriend. I steered the conversation away from this, because I don't want to be the person to ruin another relationship (even though I'm already trash for even doing it once).
    We then had a very serious conversation about his relationship, even moreso than before we slept together. It was going great, and I learned a lot of things:
    He has deep regrets about losing friends that developed feelings for him after they had sex. He said he "hated" it. I tried to be supportive while at the same time indicating that I could understand those friends, and that I considered it difficult for sex not become a precursor to emotional attachment.
    Anyway, we got to a point where I asked how many guys he had been with while in his current relationship, which is approaching its first anniversary. He became extremely defensive, saying he didn't want to talk about things like that because he had to delete all his messages (which had never occurred to me before, that he might be deleting our conversations). I said it was fine if he didn't want to talk about it, I wasn't one to judge.
    Here's the thing I don't get: we've been having the FILTHIEST conversations you can imagine, half in jest, half seriously, we've joked a little about the actual sex, he openly asked if I was thinking about it/him (and not in a horrible way, just the same joking tone). All this, yet I ask a simple question about his fidelity and that's too much? I don't know what this says about his relationships or feelings...
    And there's more:
    He made it REALLY clear that he wanted to keep what happened a secret. He seemed nervous that word would spread around the office. I acted super cool about it, and said I could be cool, don't worry. What does he do in work? He e-mails me using our in-work e-mails and then I got a little mad inside "you ask me to keep it cool, then do something like this where our boss can see it any time he wants?"...the thing about it was that the e-mail he did send was about a cute kinda in-joke moment we had that I never thought he would remember...
    He's going on a weekend getaway with his bf now for their anniversary, something he told me I "should know", and also that his bf would be at this party next week where I would probably meet him..
    MY HEAD IS EXPLODING. WHAT ARE THESE SIGNALS? It's not like "oh one fuck, damaged goods", which honestly, I would prefer because at least it's honest.
    I think he's unhappy in his relationship. It's not a thing I can fix unfortunately, but I find it so frustrating that he's basically asking me not to love him, but he's allowed to love me as much as he likes because he has his bf as a safety net.

    Has ANYONE gone through this? What gave you the most peace of mind?
    :bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::
     
    #1 A Mindful Wolf, Apr 12, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2016
  2. Sek

    Sek
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    Hey A Mindful Wolf,

    I'm so sorry that you're going through something like this. I know how it feels to be sure about how we feel and want things to be when the other person seems not to be.

    With the experience I had similar to yours, I only managed to find peace of mind by letting go and moving on. I realised that he did not have the same views of relationships I did and I was wasting my time. It was painful to detach myself because I was sincerely invested in him but now I am so grateful I did.

    If a relationship is what you want, in my honest opinion he doesn't sound like he will give you one that's worthwhile and as much as you might like him I think you should let go and move on. The behaviour he's demonstrated does not point towards a healthy attitude towards relationships.

    The only way I can see the two of you moving forward long-term successfully is if he was to leave his boyfriend and continuously earn your trust with a one-strike cheating limit hanging over his head.

    All the best.
    SEK :thumbsup:
     
    #2 Sek, Apr 12, 2016
  3. Euler

    Euler
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    My advice is that don't start any kind of sexual or romantic relationship with him. You will only burn yourself in the end. He is cheating his BF but I don't think he has any intention of leaving him. AND EVEN IF he did, could you seriously trust him not to do the same thing to you? I sure know that I couldn't.

    So take my advice and politely inform him that while you regret nothing, for the sake of your desire to keep your life simple you wish you guys just remained friends without other complications such as sex or affairs.
     
    #3 Euler, Apr 12, 2016
  4. A Mindful Wolf

    A Mindful Wolf Guest

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    You're right...that's what makes me so sad now I guess. I honestly don't think his relationship will last, but until I know he's single I think I'll just stay away. If things were different he really could be the one...ha...I'm too romantic lol.
    I know he's been under a lot of pressure from his parents (rough family life) to "legitimize" his sexuality ever since he came out. I feel like this relationship he's in is just a front for him to continue exploring; he seems even more insecure after being "out" for 4 years than I feel in the "closet".
    I can handle baggage, but I have self-respect...and respect for other relationships, even if they are false.
    *sigh*

    Thanks for sharing your experience Sek, I wasn't sure if anyone could have such a similar complicated issue.

    ---------- Post added 12th Apr 2016 at 11:33 PM ----------

    Hi Euler,

    Thanks for the reply...I appreciate your sincerity. I think it's better for me to take the truth hard and tough right now. I was pretty childish before I moved country with my opinions of relationships/fidelity, but I know now that they are SO much more complex than I even considered.
    I know you probably think I'm the clichéd "I can save him"/"I can turn him", but I'm really not. I know he's a cheater. I know that his idea of a relationship would drive me crazy, and if he cheated on me it would be over. I think he's using his current boyfriend (which is even more despicable really) as a "cover" to try and prove to his parents that gays can have "normal" relationships, while probably hooking up with a lot of guys. I don't know why he took so long with me though. Maybe some guys really will put in 3 months effort for the chance of a lay, but honestly, I'm not THAT good-looking, and there are A LOT of easier targets.
    I make him sound like an awful person, but he really isn't. He is terrible with relationships, but he is sweet, very kind, very caring, extremely considerate, and he was at least honest enough to tell me he was cheating. We could answer quizzes about each other using our own personal opinions (interests, beliefs, literally anything) and come up with high marks. "Soulmate" doesn't have to mean boyfriend or sex buddy right? I don't want to lose him, or at least the chance in the future that we both might be single at the same time and bump into each other.
    But yeah, bad for me. I'll think hard about what you said.
     
    #4 A Mindful Wolf, Apr 12, 2016
  5. Euler

    Euler
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    People are not black and white. A person may do things that we do not approve and yet be overall "good" or decent. My point is that you seem to have fallen for this guy and it means you are not thinking clearly. You said yourself that you wouldn't tolerate cheating and if that is the truth then I guess your friendship with him would be over too.

    People rarely do things randomly or just a few times. Usually there is a pattern and his pattern is that he likes to have casual sex with multiple people even if his current partner disapproves. This means that not only is he willing to ignore the emotions of a supposedly closed one, he is also willing to outright lie to them. I do not expect this pattern to change unless something dramatic happens and I think you should present some really strong evidence if you think otherwise.

    If you are prepared and accept the fact that he would most likely cheat and lie to you when you guys are together or have an open relationship then I say go for it. However, either of these prospects sounds uncomfortable then you are probably better of keeping him just as a friend.

    The first time someone loved me I really went over the moon emotionally. Like you guys, we had so much in common. Interests, education and even looks. From the beginning I knew that our thing would not work and I accepted it so I decided to jump the wagon and see where it would take us.

    Our thing ended 6 months later in my total heartbreak. It was not the fact that he found someone else or that he didn't feel so strongly about me at that point or even that I really had formed immensely strong bond to him which he didn't seem to share. It was the fact that he lied to me and came clean only after I confronted him and that he actually had found a BF and yet kept continuing our strange relationship. Now for the record, we weren't officially together and it was OK to date others. However, it was our explicit agreement that if either of us would see that for any reason our thing would not work, we notified the other immediately. As his friend, I was hurt and offended that he had lied to me and that he had made me to do something that would hurt his BF's feelings.

    We are still in friends of a sort and in talking terms. I do deeply care and love him but our friendship has been changed for the worse. On the on hand I love him because he is a good person in his heart and he did not want to hurt anyone. On the other hand he betrayed trust and I can't be sure what he felt in the first place. Now that I think of it, I don't think calling him a friend would be an accurate description. My feelings towards him are similar to a master's feelings to his puppy dog. Puppies are cute and adorable but you cannot have a meaningful relationship to a dog.

    By all means, human relationships are complex and have shades of gray but is that really important here? What matters is are you likely to get hurt or not. If someone kills you, it doesn't matter why he did it, you are still equally dead in all cases.
     
    #5 Euler, Apr 13, 2016
  6. A Mindful Wolf

    A Mindful Wolf Guest

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    Hi again Euler,

    I disagree completely with your dog comparison. Obviously it isn't romantic, but I view the pure love between a dog and its master as love perfected. Your hand on their head alone is enough to make their day...I don't know any love that is purer or more beautiful than that. The most meaningful friendship I ever had was with a dog...I knew all her body language, we could sit in total silence, not even touching and be content...if she had lived forever I would have lived alone with her happily forever.
    BUT, this is not a dog appreciation forum lol.
    Anyway...I'm not really sure what casual sex is, you know? I'm very inexperienced in this kind of thing...I would be willing to get burnt if not for my bipolar issue...it's just, that it wasn't only after the sex that I suddenly became happy and enamoured. This built up for three months...
    I do accept the possibility that my mind is completely warped by my falling for him...even despite the risks to my mental health, I don't want to go through life only living for the happy moments. A lot of bad things happened to me in the past, like really shitty things, but I don't wish them away, I love how they formed my character right now. I've never been more comfortable, and as far as my bpd goes, for the first time in a long time I feel "balanced", not high or low (even though being "high" makes each day breathtaking, the fall is almost never worth the high).
    Sorry if I'm not making much sense with "highs" and "lows", it's kinda how I categorize my moods.
    I don't know what evidence I can provide...I've been a total loner my entire life in my own country, LITERALLY friendless for long periods of time. I spent my entire childhood looking at people, keeping notes on their behaviour, predicting things they would do...when I eventually matured out of that shit, I got to be a really good judge of character, and whether you take my word or not for it, I really do see something broken in this guy. His insecurity runs very deep I fear. Like I said, I know I can't fix that...but if ever needs my support, I want to be his friend, It's also probably in my best interests to be his friend considering we work right next to each other in the office and we have a lot of mutual friends now who we see at various events.
    I just don't know how I'm going to deal with seeing his bf after what I did...
     
    #6 A Mindful Wolf, Apr 13, 2016
  7. Euler

    Euler
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    OK, sounds like if you don't do what feels as the right thing for you now then you might end up regretting for not doing it later. So fine, if you really want to get involved with him then do it. I went after my first "love" because I did not want to end up with "what if" questions. Having said that I do strongly encourage you to make adequate preparations for the worst. You have BPD and this kind of strong emotional events can trigger either of the phases. You don't want to end up heart broken in the depressive phase without any safety network. So make sure that if you fall, it doesn't kill you.
     
    #7 Euler, Apr 16, 2016
  8. A Mindful Wolf

    A Mindful Wolf Guest

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    Thanks Euler <3
    To be honest, I think reality is hitting home right now, I'm going to tell the guy that I have feelings for him when I see him again, but that I can't do this to his bf and he should try to make his relationship work.
     
    #8 A Mindful Wolf, Apr 16, 2016
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