Do you guys think a lot of very closeted bi/gay men are sociopathic?

Uh, as a 50 year old bi male. I don't see what you are saying, from my experience/perspective. And, to be clear, I don't take any offense at all from your comments (I understand the prejudices of even some in the LGBTQ+ community against bis, not to mention closeted gays). I am very interested in where this thread might lead.

You do understand that most people live and die within a very small radius (of distance) from where they were born, right? Because that's where they grew up and are 'most' comfortable with the people and culture. It's pretty easy to say, 'just go live somewhere more accepting,' but for some LGBTQ+ people that is actually much harder than simply accepting the local discrimination and/or lack of acceptance at home. And some people are brave enough to try to risk their own well-being to change perceptions/acceptance in places where LGBTQ+ is not readily accepted or even tolerated.

Finally, I don't think I would ever consider the traits/issues/courage of the people that you describe as sociopathic - maybe social-empathic, though.

Just my 2cents.

---------- Post added 4th Sep 2016 at 07:48 PM ----------

Yeah, Chip explained it much more clearly than I did!

---------- Post added 4th Sep 2016 at 07:51 PM ----------

And, I'd like to ask heythere999, what makes you think this way? You said "from my experiences and from stories" but you don't elaborate and it seems like you might have a very limited view (as well as personal opinion) of non-heterosexual individuals... You kinda sound like someone who thinks, no offense intended, that sexual preference is a choice...

 

It's not sociopathic, just unfortunate behavior. A true sociopath wouldn't hide their sexuality since they would have no reason to. Closeted gay men date women out of fear of the reaction of homophobia. Most wouldn't make the choice if our society didn't push heterosexuality on everyone.

 

Loli21, I'm not throwing shade in any respect, but not all bi and/or closeted men engage in such behavior. It's a bad, albeit not completely unwarranted, stereotype. But your comment about the influence of 'society' is spot-on.

 

Sociopathic Traits:
Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity

Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.
Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.


I don't think that closeted bi/gay men carry sociopathic traits once-so-ever. There is a difference from being in a relationship with someone to protect your image and being a sociopath. While being in a relationship with someone just to protect one's image is wrong, there is a clear difference between that and being a sociopath. Sociopathy is a serious mental illness and making a statement that all closeted bi/gay men are sociopaths/carry sociopathic traits is pretty outrageous to me. Besides, if they were truly sociopathic, they wouldn't have any need to hide their sexuality. They generally wouldn't care what people thought about them.

 

I didn't mean to state that all gay men did, just that this was the reason behind why some of them do.

I'm also closeted but I don't date men

 

Well...the guy that I met last year that turned out to be a married man but for some reason...he came to believe that I would be interested in him despite that fact. Even worse, he did become somewhat of a sociopath because when his wife was not around the house...he would call me constantly and if I decided not to answer, he would keep calling and texting and marked each call as "URGENT!!!!!". Now mind you...my intent with this guy was never no more than establishing a platonic friendship but no matter how many times I would disregard his advances towards me...he just kept pursuing.

One day...we were scheduled to meet for lunch and while driving on his way to the restaurant, he called me and kept me on the phone throughout which did not make any sense to me considering that we were going to see each other in a little while. Then, after lunch...once I got home...my phone had so many messages from him and then there were a lot of text messages all marked URGENT. I got so mad that I called him back and ask him what was going on and why he left all of those messages and we just left the restaurant. His response was that he missed me and wanted to hear my voice. This is when I blocked all contact with him...but what really baffled me was that while he kept coming on to me...he kept making mention about how much he loved his wife.

 

I think many posters have made a very good point about the differences between being a sociopath and being confused. Confused closeted gay people may end up leading men and women on, but most do not do so with malicious self-serving intent. They are simply confused and are trying to do their best to handle the situation all the while fighting their inner turmoil. You may have had frustrating experiences due to these behaviors, but that in no way makes them a sociopath (definition of which is very well given by Ravenwing). Furthermore, many people who are not closeted can be oblivious and selfish and lead many people on. So I don't understand why you'd just pick out "closeted gay people" and try to see them as sociopaths. It seems like you want to skew things to fit your current perception of reality.

 

Others have explained some of the features of antisocial personality disorder.

The views about closeted guys you've outlined actually seem to be very common in the gay community. Although I have not lived with my spouse for years, I still am married and I have learned to express the fact we're still married after a bit of a delay when meeting people. Otherwise, it's very common to get "the look." And, sometimes, the lecture.

In fact, I have had gay guys who have had hundreds of sex partners, at least some of whom they have mislead or deceived, gotten women pregnant in high school, and had many serial "relationships" give me mini-lectures on the subject. I've had fewer than 20 partners, and I'm sure I've misled or deceived more than zero of them, not the vast majority. I'm not proud of my lazy errors, omissions, or mistakes, but if I'm going to get a lecture, I'd hope it's not going to be from someone who has multiplied my sins a dozen times over.

One of my other experience milestones is being a former smoker. Surely you've met some of the former smokers who adopt a mission-from-God attitude toward smokers. I've gone out of my way to not do that. As a matter of fact, I still enjoy the smell of second hand smoke, even after more than 20 years. As far as I can tell it's this way: Guys who protest and complain about homosexuals usually end up being caught with Ted Haggard's male hooker. I'm fairly sure people who complain about gay guys who aren't "out and proud" may have a high probability of walking in the same shoes not so long before, or even then.

I think it is a mistake to shame people for leading "double lives" and "deceiving people," unless we are flawless in our assertive expression of our own sexuality or willing to discuss our own failings. I am absolutely certain that many of those who want to give a sermon about this were persecuted in school, as adolescents, got married when they were sure it would make the nagging doubts go away, and hid from the bullies by trying to appear straight, if they could. It's not enough to say that "things have improved" and now there aren't costs like "the old days." Thread after thread on this site, written by young people, show the pain and agony of trying to fit in under incredible duress from peers. Are we planning to blame them, when they grow up, because they didn't beat us to the finish line declaring we're gay? I sure hope not, because we need to give effect and meaning to the phrase "gay community."

Sociopaths are fascinating people. You'll always regret having anything to do with them. If you have the slightest positive memory of anyone, he's probably not a sociopath. And they come in varying levels of perfection, too. They can be hurtful but almost harmless, all the way to the CEO who glides on Teflon no matter what the crime. In the most exquisite cases, you'll never see it coming, and afterwards it'll take years to forget.

 

In my response, I did leave out some other details about this person for me to include him in my response to this topic. He does have some of the traits that are considered "red flags" of a sociopath. For instance, when he was coming on to me...I brought up his wife and this lead to him making attempts to explain his reasons for messing around with guys behind her back throughout the marriage. What startled me was that he did not feel that he was wrong or at fault for none of his behavior. Whenever I did not answer or return his phone calls, he would be upset and when I confronted him on his behavior and to inform him that he has no right to be upset about anything that I do because we are not a couple and you are a married man. Instead of him seeing it from my logic, he felt he did nothing wrong and I was wrong for responding to him in such a manner. Among other things that I will not get into, these are signs and behavioral patterns of a sociopath and this is why I composed my thread about him.