lol That's some sort of weird glitch. I tried to submit a new thread last night and the page didn't load. Maybe the staff could fix it, but here's a slightly edited version what I originally wrote in the meantime:
Never had much luck in finding guys even in my area but I'd just suggest clubs and getting active with the community not necessarily the LGBT community specifically and you never know who you may meet. For example you may pursue someone for being LGBT but you may find out they're nothing like you so just look for meeting people with similar interests and like I said you never know who you may find.
I think these guys are out of Toronto. I don't know what they talk about but I know the women's channel often bring up events they're going to. You could give them a look see. https://www.youtube.com/user/thegaymenchannel
I cannot see it either, which I assume means it has been deleted. But I digress... I am a citizen of both the US and Canada. I always thought of Toronto as an accepting place, where finding gay friends would be fairly easy. If my image of Toronto is not correct (I live in the west), I would like to see some Torontonians discuss this in some additional detail. So, in particular if Knight Wilson could address this, I'd be very interested.
Good suggestions, everyone! I did try looking for some events. Nothing seemed quite for me both for general groups and LGBT groups. I was mostly looking on Meetup, though. I’d check the meet ups online, and then I’d think that I could never see myself going to any of them. I did actually try two different Meetup groups, and I was disappointed with both of them. I was hoping someone could point me in another direction to find some other ways to meet people in the city. This might require a team effort. lol (&&&) I've never heard of that channel before. They are out in Toronto, and their latest video mentioned one event that happened today apparently. That seems to be an anomaly, though. I checked some of their older videos and it doesn't seem like they mention events that often. Still, it might be worth keeping an eye on them. Like I said earlier, I’m betting that it has something to do with that glitch I encountered last night when I tried to start the thread. When I clicked the button to start the thread, the page froze. When I thought to try again today, I noticed that the thread went up without the actual post to go along with it. Odd stuff. I’m not sure if Toronto is all THAT accepting of an accepting place. I came across this story on The Daily Beast that opens with an instance of prejudice in Toronto’s gay community, but prejudice in the gay community is everywhere, from what I understand. Regardless, that’s one step after what I’m having trouble with. I can’t even find ways to meet other gay guys my age. Right now, I live out in the suburbs (close to Oshawa), but I’m in Toronto around five days a week. I’m moving down to Toronto at the end of the week, and I’ll be pretty close to the CN Tower and the Rogers Centre. There will be a lot going on near me and that may make it easier to meet people. Once I get settled, being downtown may make it easier to explore the city. Anyway, I have already tried some clubs/bars on Church Street, they did seem to skew a bit to the older crowd. But I’m not into bars and clubbing anyway, so I was hoping for something else. There’s a community centre on Church Street that I checked out as well. None of the programs there seem suited to me. I’m pretty sure Toronto has a great gay community, but cracking into it seems a bit difficult. It’s like some secret society that I just can’t get into. lol :lol:
Hey Knight Wilson, I've been holding off commenting on this post because, to be quite honest, I'm in the same predicament as you! I was hoping that there might be some people here who are older and more familiar with the dating scene and it's history in Toronto. Maybe it would be beneficial if we started throwing out some of our own thoughts and experiences and see if we can get a discussion going. Well to start things off, I came out relatively early (I was only 16 and in my second year of high school). And ever since I was in high school, I was the only openly gay boy around. I had two best friends, one a lesbian, and another a bisexual guy. However, both were in the closet at the time. I found much comfort and solace in them, and honestly, without them I probably would not have made it through high school (I also suffered from depression after coming out). I remember in my final year of high school, an LGBT club had started up and I was so excited at the thought! "Finally I'll get to meet more gay guys like me!" I thought with glee~ Yet, to much my dismay, they never came. It was always just me. Sometimes there would be some straight girls who would come to show their support, but that's about it. I never really had gay guy friends as you can see. And this was such a lonely feeling to me in high school. I couldn't stand it. So I decided that I would try to find people via online dating websites. Although I did end up meeting some people (and even my first real boyfriend), most people were there for the sex. The instant relief; the quick, discreet meet-up. Finding real, honest people was almost an impossibility. I have also tried dating apps recently and found much of the same results as I had been getting with online dating websites. I have also been to the gay village in Toronto, like you mentioned; however, I don't quite fit into that scene either. This is the reason I have also decided to skip out on trying gay bars and gay clubs. Now, I'd like to bounce around some observations I have made over the past few years about the dating scene in Toronto (from my own personal experience): 1) People in Toronto are very nice, but have very little patience. Because of our horrible transit system and long commute times (the longest in Canada), people just don't have the time. 2) We live in a very fast paced and keep to ourselves culture. It's hard to make it in Toronto. The rent is unreasonably high, unemployment is high, and people are just trying to do the best with what they have. Have you ever noticed on the streets or TTC that people NEVER make eye contact with one another. IT'S LIKE IT'S TABOO! If you've ever been to another part of Canada (like the Maritimes), people are much more considerate and treat people like neighbors and family even if they don't even know them. 3) DISCREET. This is the word you will hear over and over again when you go on dating websites or apps. Everyone is either straight acting or discreet. And I think it shows. Unless you're walking around the gay village or around the downtown core, seeing anyone who displays any stereotypical "gay" attributes is rare. EVERYONE LOOKS STRAIGHT TO ME (I mean, granted, I am also mistaken to be straight a lot of the time). But this makes things quite the challenge for us, since it makes it difficult to identify each other. Anyways, I feel like I'm starting to rant now so maybe it's time to pass the torch onto someone else haha! I'd love to hear some thoughts from anyone who might be living in a big city like Toronto (or ideally people who are also from Toronto).
That is an interesting link. I'm acquainted with the incidence of racism in Canada, but this is an interesting tie in to the gay community. This too is interesting. The no-eye-contact tendency is what one tends to find in Wisconsin and, especially, in Minnesota in the United States. It appears to correlate with high levels of Scandinavian influence, as being reserved and un-ostentatious is a value in those cultures. In the northeastern United States, there is a considerable difference between the upper midwest in this regard, and northeasterners who seem noticeably more outgoing. What I mean by "outgoing" is "willingness to strike up conversations with strangers." I would have expected more diversity in Toronto, with many cultures, to make this a non-issue. I must be wrong about that. I have found Canadians to be fairly outgoing, in the west and in the eastern coastal areas (Maritimes). I grew up in Seattle, where it was considered positively deviant to address a stranger, such as saying hello or other social nicety, without an actual "business" reason. They have a name for it, the "Seattle Freeze." If somebody says, "We should get together sometime," you should forget following up, because it means "we should get together on the twelfth of fucking never." Unless there is a specific time or place suggested, it's always a non-invitation to go further. There are plenty of openly gay people in Seattle, but making friends with them (or anyone else) was a chore. On the other hand, when I visited Boston or Providence I lost track of the number of people and number of hours I talked with strangers. It was great.
Providence isn't that large, it is true. But my experience there during several visits was off the charts by comparison to the Northwest. Just one of several examples was when I was in a restaurant with a partner, seated near another couple. Somehow, we ended up starting a conversation and it continued for over an hour. This sort of thing would never, ever, ever happen in Seattle. Well if it does I never saw it in 50 years. I've had the same thing happen in Maine and New Brunswick. In Boston, somebody would ask for something, such as directions and I'd tell them I wasn't from there, and in many cases this turned into a very nice social conversation that lasted for anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour. These experiences occurred within the last several years. My first exposure to Boston was in 1984. It was the very first time that I realized that the bizarre introverted social customs in Seattle weren't "normal." For years, I thought there was something wrong with me. Whatever was "wrong" with me didn't come to the east coast with me! At that point, I decided to start studying this, and as it turns out there is a lot written about these variations. Minneapolis/Saint Paul in the United States is often cited as the most difficult place to socially engage in the country. They have a name for it there, too. It's called "Minnesota Nice." This was really empowering for me. I'm introverted, with more than a touch of Asperger's Syndrome (I'm a nerd). For years, I thought if I just tried harder, I could "fix" this "problem." It's true that I had to try harder, but it was only when I saw how other places were different, that's when I realized that I can try harder, but the other part of a conversation has to put forth some fucking effort, too. :eusa_doh: Perhaps the biggest contrast is New Yorkers. In most cases, you'll know what a New Yorker thinks of you pretty fast. If you offend them, they'll more often tell you to go fuck yourself. In Seattle, by contrast, the person who has a strong urge to kill you will smile and use passive-aggressive behavior. It fucking drove me nuts, but for a long time I couldn't figure out why. As annoying as some New Yorkers can be, I like this feature of their personalities and would rather put up with the more open aggression, in return for getting some feedback. Bottom line: I consider myself socially impaired, and when you're socially impaired it's even more important to live in a place that is at least socially functional. ---------- Post added 11th Sep 2016 at 11:06 PM ---------- Oh, and here's another couple of examples. As I was looking at this over the last 30 years, I've developed the habit of asking anyone in Seattle who seems outgoing this question: "Did you grow up around here?" In the vast majority of cases, the answer was no, they were from elsewhere. And this was well before Seattle became the "hot" place to be with a high growth rate. And then, one day at work in downtown Seattle, about a dozen years ago, a woman was muttering in the elevator, seeming sort of angry. "Could I help you with something?," I asked. "These people around here....you CAN'T talk to them!" she said. She went on to explain that people were so hard to get to know. "You're not from around here, are you?," I asked. "No, I'm from California," she replied. "It's not you," I consoled. "People are uber-introverts here." I went on to explain a bit of this. It's not statistically valid research, but it sure has convinced me. Perhaps you could try a similar experiment in Toronto, if you have similar types of problems. Of course Canada does have a lot more linguistic clues as to people's origins. We do in the US too, but they're not always obvious.
These phenomena: "Seattle Freeze" & "Minnesota Nice." I did a little bit of googling and poking around and I was very intrigued by what I found. It seems like there is quite a substantial amount of anecdotal evidence to support the existence of said social norms. And it all sounds very in line with your experience living in Seattle. In regards to the Seattle Freeze specifically, people seem to deem the root causes as: 1) The Scandinavian cultural influence 2) The tech-y, introverted culture 3) The weather (very similar to Toronto in regards to the lack of sunlight and long winters) 4) Cliques and pre-established social groups that are hard to penetrate (especially by transplants) 5) The busy career, and individual focused culture I found these findings quite fascinating! I soon began to wonder "aren't these traits generally what one would find across all major cities?" However, I quickly remembered your points about your experiences in other big cities like Boston. And now that I really think about, I have had 5 friends who are from the west coast (Vancouver). All of them grew up there and display very different social patterns from most of my other friends from Toronto. My friends from the west coast are all very fond of striking up conversations with strangers (in fact, that's how I met all of them). They seem much more open to talk about themselves and their personal lives with people they just met recently. And all of them are more extroverted and will never say no to a night at the bar, a dinner with friends, or even just a casual outing. You mentioned that you are also introverted, and struggle with mild Asperger's Syndrome. I can see how this would impair your ability to make genuine social connections with people from your native Seattle. Like you said, you can try as hard as you want, but at some point the other person has to put in some bloody effort, too. And living in a place that is at least socially functional is a necessity. I just wonder if these observations are part of our own confirmation bias and selection bias or if we're really onto something here. Because from what I gather from our conversation thus far, I think it's safe to say that Toronto definitely suffers from many of the same social dysfunctions that Seattle does. You'd think that most urban cities would have a similar social dynamic, but it's clear to see this is not the case. I wonder if anyone else has found similar results by traveling from coast to coast or city to city?
It's of course impossible to rule out confirmation bias. The pile of evidence has grown quite large, and many others also observe it. As for factors, I like numbers 1 and 3 in your list. The first, because Scandinavian culture is notoriously reserved and un-ostentatious. Anyplace Scandinavian Lutherans congregate, you can observe this behavior. Vancouver Canadians, especially before the city was turned into an untraceable real estate money laundry for offshored Chinese money, have been quite a bit more outgoing than those just south. I think this is the uniquely diverse blend of cultures that infused Canada over many decades. If you go just south, to Lynden Washington you'll find thousands of those Scandinavian Lutherans, and a very quiet, reserved, religious, introverted culture. I think at one time the Catholics must have traveled north, and the protestants south, in a similar way they did in Ireland.
