My parents bought "conversion" garbage.

Geez Guff,

That’s absolutely awful! I’m so sorry that you have to go through yet MORE turmoil! But have your parents actually approached you about it yet?

If the therapist was licensed, then he just violated his oath and can lose his license if he Outed you to your parents. But you might have to wait until your parent approach you to find out who told them that. Maybe by laughing and asking them in a manner that shows you offended by the suggestion that you are gay “who in the world put that crazy idea in your head?” At this point, I definitely think that it would only make things worse for you to actually Come Out to them.

Conversion therapy is crap that exists because there are a lot of uniformed people out there that still believe that being LGBTQ is a choice. Add to that the homophobia instilled by the doctrines of many of the major religions and Reparative Therapy (Conversion Therapy) is a still big business in some parts of the country.

You can check online for the rules on reparative therapy in your state and I’ll do some research for you, as well.

Again, I’m so sorry that you are having such an unnecessarily rough time with all of this. It never fails to dismay me how hard-core Christians who are supposed to follow the example of Jesus can be so hateful and judging.

Try to stay strong, my friend! We'll do some brainstorming for you here and, as always, you KNOW you have our support!

 

First off, Guff, you are NOT a terrible person. You are a wonderful person who is having to endure terrible trials!

Second, you also KNOW that you don't really want to die! Suicide is NOT an option, so please stop even thinking that way. (Yes, I KNOW it's easy for me to say, but I MEAN it!) And you have a whole host of people here on EC who would be completely distraught if you killed yourself.

Stay angry if you have to. Angry is good. Angry isn't despair. Angry people stand up for themselves. But DON"T do anything rash, such as Coming Out to your parents unless you have thought it through and decided in your mind ahead of time that that is an option you might want to take.

As to everyone betraying you, well, I can only answer for myself. And I would never do that! As for the suicide prevention hotline, like I explained to you they are legally bound to report it if they believe a life is in immediate danger - which yours certainly was - and they DID save your life. All your friends here on EC thank them for that. You should, too!

If the therapist isn't actually a certified therapist, then your parents (probably unknowingly) led you into a trap. Because if he is just a layperson from the Church who does counseling, he isn't under the same confidentiality restrictions as a licensed therapist. A licensed therapist should have a copy of their State Certification posted in their office. (I'm sorry, I should have thought to mention that before.)

Keep a strong front, my friend!

 

Guff,
I know how difficult it is to be someone outside the margins in Kentucky. It's such a small-minded, conservative state. I can't imagine being a younger person on top of all that. You are incredibly strong. You are incredibly resilient. Yours is not certainly not an easy lot, but you can manage it. I have a family member who says, "We go through what we've been through to help others through what they're going through." It's a "No man is an island," mentality. That's what this site is about. That's what you are going to be able to do for someone, and probably already are doing. I'm so sorry for the utter crap you're dealing with as far as your parents' attitudes, that horrible book, the therapist that might have betrayed you. Don't let those things define you. Be defined by how you rise above all of that.

 

I am sorry to hear about your continuing struggles with your parents/family and mental health, but I am pleased you are still writing about everything on here. It's really important to keep talking to people who have your safety and wellbeing at heart. I know it's very tempting to keep a lid on everything when you are so depressed, but it really isn't a good idea because the pressure builds and builds when you do that and all clarity of thought vanishes. Talking and sharing your thoughts (in a safe place) helps to keep you grounded and reduces the despair that may lead to harmful actions. You know we are here Guff and we want to help you through this.

Clinical depression is terrible, because it drains all of your energy and positivity and leaves you with this constant shitty feeling about life and yourself and it's really hard to push against it on your own. It's hard to see past the overwhelming agony and realise that you are a good person with a lot to contribute to the world. How does it feel to hear me and other members tell you that?

If your parents are reading about reparative therapy techniques they are on a fools errand Guff. There is no bigger waste of time and effort than reparative therapy. It is totally discredited and does not work. It never has. Nothing and nobody can permanently change your sexual orientation - I promise you. Our sexuality is not a mental health issue that requires treatment or therapy, and that's not just my opinion, it's professional opinion. It's the opinion of the World Health Organisation actually. In many countries around the world, reparative therapy is banned. Why do you think that is?

One of the fundamental points about therapy is the relationship between the client and the therapist. If you can't trust your therapist the whole process is pointless, because you will be unable to allow yourself to be vulnerable in his/her presence. All too often, therapists are assigned to us, rather than chosen by us and that's precisely what has happened here Guff. Your parents have selected somebody who they trust, rather than somebody who you trust and I can't see you making much progress from here. Would you be willing to tell your parents that you are not making progress with the therapist of their choice and ask to see somebody neutral who is unknown to you and them?

It really would be a bad idea to come out to your parents now Guff, but it doesn't mean you can't plan for the day when you will. Coming out is a process, but we often try to make it a sprint. What do you need to do in order to come out to your parents and how can you get there? Talk to us about your thoughts and ideas. Just thinking about these things and trying to make some plans is an important stepping stone on the coming out journey.

You are part of our community Guff and by simply coming here and talking to like-minded people you are working on your coming out journey. Amid the despondency and despair, try to focus on small positives like these, because while you are doing all of this any attempt to change you is failing.

Remember that you can private message me too, if you wish.

Here's a big group hug, just for you. (&&&)

 

Hi Guff,

I'm glad you've posted on EC again even though it sounds like things haven't gone well.

Can you clarify whether the person you spoke to is a therapist, that is a certified professional bound by confidentiality, or whether they are a counselor who knows your parents. If they are the latter then you need to point blank refuse to see them again (you could even mention that you don't feel they keep things confidential) but if you have grounds to think they told your parents they are not suitable to help you. If they ask why you can just say that some things need to be worked through before you speak to them (your parents) about anything and it will be easier if you know that other people won't be giving your parents second-hand information - you don't need to specify what you need to talk about but you can speak about why the process needs to be confidential and impartial.

Do you want to speak directly about the book your Mum is reading? Or even speak to just your Dad about it? I going to assume you don't because that may bring up why they think they need to read it. (Btw, does your Mum normally read Christian healing or faith healing books? I just wanted to be sure that it isn't a book she would read without thinking she needed the specific advice. So I have books on my shelf about trans people but I'm not trans, it's just the kind of reading I do.) So if you don't want to speak to them directly then one option would be to have your own research debunking conversion therapy ready and waiting. Then if your parents bring it up you can say 'I saw your book on conversion therapy and I wasn't sure what it was (if that would be plausible) so I looked it up online and it has been completely disproved' and so on. Essentially, you won't be able to refute gay conversion therapy if they bring it up.

The most important thing is to change therapist if the one your parents selected is unsuitable. You should definitely make the point PatrickUK highlighted - therapy will only work if it is with someone you trust, it is not about who your parents trust because they aren't the one's who will rely on this person. You have to be able to trust them to keep your discussions private otherwise therapy won't work and you could suffer a repeat. (I don't know if you would want to mention that to them but at this point you need to get through to them that therapy is about helping you and no one else.)

I hope this helps. It is very frustrating that your parents are still trying to control everything rather than let you resolve things yourself with support that is just for you. I don't know of anyone specific in EC who has dealt with religious parents or dealing with parents suggesting conversion - but if you can find a thread on it you might some people who can speak more directly about this issue and offer some insight.

Having said that, I think it is important to remember that your parents are trying to help - in a totally misguided and counter productive way to be sure - but they are trying what they think will help you. I mention this for two reasons.

First, it demonstrates that your parents care about you and want you be happy. You once mentioned that you thought they would throw you out but if they (for whatever reason) think you are gay and haven't done that then they may be more tolerant that you worry they may be. I'm not saying it will be easy but over time if you stand your ground you may be able to get them to think differently.

Second, that right now they think you being happy = being straight but you need to make them understand that that is not the case. Obviously, some of this you can't discuss unless you come out and we know you are not going to that anytime soon for very good reasons.

I'm just trying to try and think of things from your parents point of view and trying to make the point that they are trying to help even though they are making things worse.

I hope this helps and you know you can wall post whenever if you like. Take care mate.

 

"The suicide hotline claimed confidential but than sent a policeman to my home! "

i understand the bfrustration and the overwhelming situation, and the betrayals, and the lies, and the looking for help and getting the opposite.


If it helps - ther eis this thing called a "mandated reporter". It means a person who is "mandated" to report certain things. Those thinss are 1. if a person is homicidal (wants to kill someone else) 2 . suicidal 3. if a child is being abused.


Pretty much anyone who works in psychiatry / psychology or who works in schools or with kids, or any health care worker i think, or teacher or assistant, is legally a mandated reporter. If they are caught failing to report one of these situations - they are in serious trouble.

So - hotlines are confidential in that what you tell them is personal and between you and them - however with this legal exception of mandated reporte.r Hopefully they did not divulge personal details to anyone else - they are supposed to not do that.

They are legally required to call the police.

Most people in jobs like that are...

If you shared with them that you are gay for example, I'm pretty sure they aren't suppose to tell anyone. That's what the confidentiality means.

They are just required by law not to keep those 3 secrets...

I'm sorry your in this mess - take good care of yourself. Easy does it - keep positing here and let us knwo how you are doing

And good for you standing your ground


Honestly - ill tell you - wishing you were dead is normal and healthy. its self defense. if things are really so bad around you, in your environment, that you are suffering really really badly - its normal to seek an out, safety, anywhere you can. However thank goodness we have minds to double check our feelings and instincts!!! Its normal and healty when someone really hurts you to want to hit them or something to stop them or push them away, and if things are hard enough its normal to want to protect yourself anyway you can. But do stay on top of yourself - be careful who you hit, think, and please dont harm yourself - you dont deserve it, this is NOT YOUR FAULT, and have hope - this will change. If nothing else - you will age out and be free It will be OK someday - hang on!

---------- Post added 15th Oct 2016 at 07:47 PM ----------

Dear Guff,

When I was young, i realized people hadn't taught me anything about mental illness. And i felt that was so wrong.

What i didn't realize until i grew up - is that SO MANY people have mental illness

it can be severe, or more subtle- it could be narcissitic personality disorder, it could be emotional problems, obsessions - its so common.


The thing is - there are TONS of people with mental health problems. Sick people. Everywhere - all over.

And this is the kicker - they make you sick. They drive you nuts . They have neurolgical models of how it messes up your brain.

So those sick smiles of people creeping you out "caring" - those are really sick smiles. And they are from sick people. Watch out - the y are everywhere man. And they will drive you crazy. We call it "crazymaking behavior"

Its not you - its them. Detach from them - they are sick. "you can't reason with crazy".

Take care!!!!!!

 

Ugh, Guff. My heart is heavy for you. Everything you're having to deal with is such crap. I don't want to sound like a cliche, but it DOES get better. If you have to, stay quiet about your sexuality. I know you're not out to anyone right now, but if they're suspecting and that makes it an untrusting and unsafe environment for you, just keep it under wraps. Go get a job, save the heck out of your money, and plan for college.

I see you're homeschooled, so your parents are possibly triple whammy scared of any outside influences, so I don't know what your life is like (though it sounds like an uncomfortable hell), but is your mom prepping you for college? That will be your chance to break free. Don't go to a religious school - come up with whatever excuse. Apply other places. Send essays. Some back here and talk about it. I'll do whatever I can to help you. Ugh. I can't even believe people like this truly exist. But it's because I come from a very liberal area. It's not fair to you, I actually find it to be completely abusive and absurd, but like everyone's saying, you can make it through!! We are here for you. There is nothing wrong with you. And nobody who's gay would ever deserve something bad to happen to them. People are ignorant about sexuality and sexual fluidity, and especially super uber religious people. And that's not to be offensive if you happen to be religious. So I apologize if you are and that's hurtful.

Above all, stay safe. Let them be insane. And think you're gay and be ready to convert you, and just say you're not. I seriously wouldn't even know how to deal with this and I'm way older than you. So I'm sorry you have to deal with this, but I'm here for you. Don't even talk to therapists anymore. Say you're fine and come on here until you have some sort of money to get your own therapist. And do not feel like you don't want to live. I can tell you're an amazing person. Just by your first post. You may have a tough road ahead, but I know you're going to be okay.

 

I would definitely check the laws on reparative "therapy" and try to avoid it, especially if they get the idea of sending you away for it. I have read too many horror stories about those "conversion camps" and the very abusive "techniques" they use on their clients. The suicide rate is high for people who go there. I read a book a while back about it. Definitely don't come out to them. That book may well recommend such places. We are born with our sexual preferences, and to try to "remake" you would be devastating. They can't make you straight anyway, it's not possible but they can destroy you in trying to. They get big money for running these places and that's what this "industry" is really all about, money. They depend on people buying into their convincing words but it's nothing but slick advertising hype. Avoid it any way you can.

 

Guff.

First off, how often are you schedule to see your therapist? Since it really looks now like he didn’t Out you, he may be your best way forward to get out of this depression and form a plan in your mind for a happy and meaningful future. (Just make sure to ask to see his State Certification next time you meet with him to verify that he really is a licensed therapist.)

Second, once you turn 18 (in a year, right?) you are legal adult and can both seek help and/or leave to home to go out on your own without your parent’s permission. What is it that will hold you there at your parents’ house for 4-6 years? At a minimum, all you have to do is hold out to 18 and they can’t force you into conversion therapy. How do you do that? Just do what you are doing now – staying in the closet. If your parents ask, you can deny being gay. Why would they try to do something like conversion therapy if you don’t even say that you are gay or questioning your sexuality?

We REALLY want you to get through this and have a wonderful future, Guff!

Stay strong, my friend!

 

You definitely can do it, Guff. Especially if you work with the therapist. Once you get your clinical depression under control, color will return to the world and you will see that things aren't as bad as they look right at the moment.

When you turn 18 you will have all the choices. Including getting your driver's license. Why don't your parents want you to have a driver's permit now, if I may ask?

 

Hi Guff,

Thanks for answering some of those questions, it's a big help.

If, as Quantumreality said, your therapist didn't say anything then your parents may suspect for other reasons. But they can only suspect - given your specific situation I'd have to agree with Quantumreality that you just deny it if your parents bring it up and that should at least keep them from trying to send you to conversion therapy or anything else.

Btw is it likely that your Mum would think of conversion therapy and not your Dad? He seemed more accepting of you needing to see a therapist than your Mum did so he may be opposed to the whole conversion approach. Just something to bear in mind if it comes up - he may be able to step in on your behalf.

For now focus on getting your depression managed. When you turn 18 you can consider your options. Obviously, moving out might to big a step at first but getting your driving license would be your best start. Then you could consider your options for leaving home whether that means getting a job or going to university.

As for your friend, does she not know that you were in hospital? If not would you tell her and if you have told her then she's a terrible friend and you've happened to find that out at a bad time for you. Could you propose to your parents that you do an alternative hobby if there is one you would prefer? What about your running are you still doing that? Try and focus on something you enjoy for now, just to keep you going. Just think of it in terms of 18 - you don't have to come out then but you will be able to start planning of moving out. Take care and know that you will be able to get out this situation.

 

go to a big city with good public transportation. trains or buses - they work.

Most cities have "youth hostels" where you can stay for like 20-40 $ a night. If you are nice, they are usually hiring - and you can work there in exchange for your bed.

crash someplace like that, get a job fast, any job, and get your own place



also - maybe go to college, anyplace witha dorm. even community colleges someties have dorms. Just go somewhere you havea place to live. Anywhere - you can transfer to another school later.

there are many kinds of scholarships and financial aid and loans you can apply for.

there are ways out - keep up you chin , keep going one day at a time - there are ways out


p.s. dude, i should think there might b e some way to quit soccer. That sounds the esasiet.

just tell them off

....or fake having shin splints or something ask a bunch of people who have had it, study it, and fake it


if that doesn't work, tell them off


Take care!!! We're rooting for you!!!!


p.s. you could even try and apply for "emancipation" as a minor from your parents. Look into it

---------- Post added 17th Oct 2016 at 11:41 AM ----------

also - my friend went to a truck driving school that had a dorm, bunk beds. they are out there

also p- you can always join the navy or something. maybe the coast guard? Good luck, don't worry - there ARE ways out

 

This is a rather valid solution, I must concur! The solutions I was thinking of were a tad too dangerous so I've held them back, Emancipation however will offer a far less reckless escape method. I'd say if it goes too far downhill to bring them onto the path of logic and reason, such a strategy will be necessary.

 

Hi Guff,

Looking at it emancipation is not an option as you need to be financially self-sufficient and you would need legal advice. This would require you to be working which I don't think you are at the moment. I think it is best to focus on options that are realistic and feasible within the situation you are in.

Sorry I know you want to get out of there but the only useful solutions are ones you can practically carry out. If you wanted to do something like that the first step would be getting a job but that might not be feasible if you want to finish schooling.

 

Guff, I'm somewhat familiar with rural Kentucky, and I am well aware how easy it is to feel trapped there. Some people don't travel more than a few miles, except on very special occasions. When you are 18, you can take some very bold steps. If you think of it, whatever risks you might take then are pretty tame compared to the situation you're in now.

Your parents are treating you like they think you are possessed. I read with interest some of the suggestions that others have made, regarding the possibility you could remove yourself from this situation in a constructive way. It seems to me you need an advocate, when there aren't that many around you at this point.

Please don't fall into the trap of thinking you'll never escape there. Instead, spend some of your time (depressed people have a lot of time to think, as withdrawing from social contact is one of the things people do with depression) doing some reading, and thinking, of a plan to escape from there when you're 18. If you can do this, it will at least somewhat improve your feelings of control of the situation.

Not being able to drive is just one of the things you'll be able to fix when you're away from your environment.

Think of it this way--your parents may be more mentally ill than you think you are. Depression is a debilitating condition, but it's not as severe as what your parents are exhibiting.

I know it's hard. You just want someone to love you. It hurts that your parents are being this way. Please be resourceful, and draw inspiration from people who struggled like you and made it.

J.R. Simplot, for example, left home when he was in the equivalent of middle school, and died at age 99 after amassing a fortune of several billion dollars.

My own uncle did not get along with his parents in South Dakota, and left his home when he was in the 7th grade, dropping out of school in the 1920's, and traveled to the west coast. He worked in a small town, as a farmhand, and joined the Navy in World War II. He got married during the war, and it was then, in the 1940's that his wife forced him to reach out and contact his parents, who hadn't heard from him in many years. That man went on to become a hard working union guy, who had a very good life.

So I do know what I'm talking about. I know people who have "divorced" their parents and lived to tell about it. They were no smarter than you are, when they did it.

I care about you. The other people here care about you. And the people who run this web site want to help you. Please reach out to them, if you have no one else to talk to sometimes.

 

Hey, do you hapen to know much about it? I don't, but I have been feeling for awhile we need to organize on teachng desperate gay youth online how to do this, and support them through it. Could save lives..

Thanks

p.s. (anyone else know?)

---------- Post added 17th Oct 2016 at 05:00 PM ----------

=

ar eyou sure? you are in the UK, we ar ein the US. Some people do get emancipated from bad families, i'm not sure how it works