1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Should I (21) have sex with a minor?

Discussion in 'Family, Friends, and Relationships' started by maricamagica, Feb 18, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. maricamagica

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Berlin
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    I'm 21 year-old and usually I date people my age or older than me but right now I'm sexting with a cute 15 year old I kinda want to hook up with. He's drop dead gorgeous so I don't really know if I can resist. I don't think it's a pervert thing to do it still feels kinda weird to me because he's so young and still maturing. I can't tell how mature he is but to me he seems like a typical naive 15 year old. He knows that he wants to have sex though, that's certain and I guess he has some sexual experience. So should I go for it or do you think it is immoral for me to have sex with such a young teenager?
     
  2. Mj5963

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    23
    Location:
    Port St. Lucie , Florida
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Well I never comment on morality but the harsh reality is it is illegal and comes with risk so you need to be aware of that
     
  3. Chip

    Board Member Admin Team Advisor Full Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Messages:
    16,551
    Likes Received:
    4,750
    Location:
    northern CA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    First, no. This is incredibly wrong morally, ethically, legally, and in every other way.

    Second, you do realize that telling a Federally-registered public charity, publicly, that you intend to do this (and that you are currently sexting, which itself is illegal) triggers mandatory reporting to authorities in your locale, correct?
     
  4. Quantumreality

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Messages:
    4,311
    Likes Received:
    329
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Definitely DO NOT do it, maricamagica!

    While I believe that under German law, since you are 21, it is technically 'legal,' but you asked if it is moral. In my opinion, NO!

    Do you really believe that it's not perverse to take advantage of someone who doesn't yet really know who they are as a person? Teens automatically see adults as authority figures. How can you truly know whether or not his consent for sexual relations is based on an informed decision or because he is in any way intimidated by you? In most countries, what you are suggesting is considered statutory rape because the minor is assumed to be unable to provide knowledgeable, informed consent and the adult is presumed to have manipulated the minor through their undue influence as an authority figure. A teenager his age is still developing physically, mentally and emotionally, so he is very vulnerable. You even said:

    That sounds quite predatory to me. I would applaud you if you were simply being an LGBTQ mentor or role model, but certainly not his Lover. And since your contact with him is through sexting, I think you should stop your contact with him completely. You are sending exactly the wrong signals to a vulnerable young man.

    You even said:

    That is just lusting after him. How is that not predatory?

    So let him have his experiences with other guys around his own age. In fact, if you want to mentor him, you should discourage him from having relations from anyone who is more than about a year older or younger than himself.

    Please do the RIGHT thing for both you and him!

    Just my strong opinion!
     
    #4 Quantumreality, Feb 18, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
  5. maricamagica

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Berlin
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    I'm German and legal age here is 14 so it's definitely not illegal. You're Americans and you were raised in a society that considers sex with a minor statutory rape. In Germany sex with a minor isn't really that frowned upon because it's perfectly legal.

    PS. I'm also sexting with a 17 year old, do you think that would be okay? While I don't think that having sex with either of them is immoral, it still feels weird because I'm not used to hook up with people younger than me. Maybe I will accommodate with time and get used to having relations with younger people?
     
    #5 maricamagica, Feb 18, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
  6. Winter Maiden

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2015
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Just don't do it. You yourself stated that you weren't that comfortable with the idea of doing it because he is so young so don't bother. Wait until he is older or move on.
     
  7. Chip

    Board Member Admin Team Advisor Full Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Messages:
    16,551
    Likes Received:
    4,750
    Location:
    northern CA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    So... it sounds like you already made up your mind. If so, why did you even bother making the thread?

    It is absolutely unquestionably, morally and ethically wrong, as I said in my first post. The power dynamic difference between a 15 year old (and, likely a 17 year old) and a 21 year old is unquestionable. You are seen as older and wiser, and the younger person is going to be inclined to do what you tell them, because they want to please you in much the same way one would seek approval from a parent.

    It is abusive. It sends a very disturbed and inappropriate message to the teen(s). It is wrong. It is indefensible.

    But... if you want to find some ridiculous way to rationalize it and convince yourself it's OK, then there's nothing we can do to stop you. Other than to report the behavior, and even though *this* specific behavior may be technically legal, very often when such behaviors are reported... they trigger authorities to look more deeply. Usually in situations like this, there's a pattern of inappropriate behavior, which would tend to be supported by your attitude in this thread.

    So... you asked for opinions, and you have pretty much unanimity in condemnation of your behavior. So either admit that it's grossly inappropriate and cut it out... or continue to justify it to yourself. In either case, it's not appropriate here to try and rationalize it, because it's simply wrong, and since you don't seem to see that, there really isn't much anyone can do if you have no moral compass.
     
  8. Gravity

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2011
    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    256
    Location:
    United States
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    It's true that under German law, this isn't illegal (though depending on how close you are to 22, it's possible it could become illegal soon, based on my understanding; it also depends on how the beginning of your contact with this person is interpreted).

    Another thing to think about, though, is that both of these people you are talking about are minors (age of majority in Germany being 18, as in much of the States). And even you seem to feel like there's something potentially strange in this situation, or that you're not quite on board with the idea of having sex with someone who isn't an adult (even someone who is still years away from becoming an adult). It would be worthwhile putting a hold on this and taking some time to consider why you find yourself becoming attracted to minors at this point in your life. Odds are, something is going on here that isn't 100% healthy, for either you or these other two.
     
  9. maricamagica

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Berlin
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    I didn't expect such a strong backlash to be honest. I think you guys are pretty biased because your belief system was molded by the laws you grew up with. If you grow up learning sex with a minor is always rape of course you would deem it immoral even if it's actually not an illegal act. German society is a lot more liberal when it comes to sex and if I asked this question in a German chat room I would probably get completely different responses. I also asked my friends and my sister and they all told me to go for it. I don't see any problem with the 17 year old but I'm still unsure about the 15 year old. Also I used to hook up with men much older than me when I was a minor not too long ago and it didn't scar me at all. I was a teenager not a child and when I saw a smoking hot adult I knew 100% that I wanted them and didn't think 2 seconds about their age. I wasn't pushed or manipulated in any way and I never would do anything if I wasn't sure that the boy really wants it. The boy is pretty clear about the fact that he's attracted to me and let's be honest I'm 21, I'm hardly an adult myself. I would understand the objections if I was a gross 55 year old creep but I'm still a boy myself.

    PS. Like I said legal age here is 14 and reporting it to the authorities wouldn't make much sense, the police would laugh and hang up the phone. The only way this could be illegal was if I was his teacher or paid him money to have sex with me and obviously neither is the case. If the law says it's not wrong and I don't hurt anyone with my actions, how can you say it is highly immoral? How is there any violation in this scenario when everyone involved consented and wasn't pushed to do anything?


    ---------- Post added 18th Feb 2017 at 03:26 PM ----------

    Are you implying I have abnormal tendencies because I'm attracted to minors? Biologically you're even supposed to be attracted to teenagers as they're already sexually active and nature technically intends for them to procreate - think about it, teenagers are perfectly capable to conceive a child and nature doesn't conform to made up human concepts of morality. I mean of course I'm going to be attracted to a gorgeous 17 year old, hell people still mistake me for a minor, so how would I not be?

    PS. No, it wouldn't become illegal if I was older. Legal age is 14 for everyone, there aren't any gradations. Legally, a 60 year old would be allowed to have sexual relations with a 14 year old.
     
    #9 maricamagica, Feb 18, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
  10. Totesgaybrah

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2016
    Messages:
    992
    Likes Received:
    151
    Location:
    CA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I know its been said but at 21 you are way too old for a 15 year old regardless of the law. At 15 he does not know what he wants or needs doesn't matter what he says to the contrary.
     
  11. Chip

    Board Member Admin Team Advisor Full Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Messages:
    16,551
    Likes Received:
    4,750
    Location:
    northern CA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    No. I can't speak for anyone else, but my beliefs are grounded in well-studied theories of adolescent social development, social psychology, and power dynamics.

    Again, why on earth did you even ask the question if you weren't interested in the answer and are only interested in getting responses to justify your grossly inappropriate, unethical behavior?

    I don't think we can say that. It may be that your current fixation on young teens may, in fact, be a byproduct of your own inappropriate relationships at a young age.

    So what if the boy were 10? 13? 14? What if the boy of those ages "really wanted it" and was "pretty clear about the fact he's attracted to you"? Would that make it OK? I really, really hope not. And if not, then you're acknowledging that there's a line. But you apparently have little to no understanding of adolescent social development, by virtue with the fact that you don't understand that your own interactions may have negatively affected your own sense of what a healthy relationship is. 15 year olds don't have the capacity to understand how a lot of choices they might want to make aren't healthy for them, and that's part of the reason we have both laws and customs that help children navigate these sorts of situations. The problem is, people like you have no interest in the needs of young, vulnerable teens, only in your own selfish needs.

    Would you like us to test out that theory? I think you'd be surprised to find that police around the world, even in countries where the legal age is low, take a keen interest in predatory behavior by older people toward younger ones, even if it is technically legal. We've been doing this for 13+ years now and have a pretty good idea how to handle these sorts of reports, all over the world... and it is very rare that police are not interested in circumstances like this. And the unfortunate thing here is, you show not the slightest concern about your behavior.

    Just because something is legal doesn't make it ethical. If you don't understand that, there really isn't much I can tell you.
     
  12. maricamagica

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Berlin
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Uhm, believe me, I've lived in this country since I was born and the police could care less what a 15 or 17 old do in bed with a 21 year old. There's simply no legal ground and they couldn't do anything even if they wanted to. This isn't America, German people don't consider this predatory at all. And I don't have a fixation on young teens, on the contrary, I've mostly hooked up with people much older than me and never with someone younger. I'm not even that eager to hook up with the 15 year old because he really is rather young for my taste but I definitely don't see the problem with the 17 year old. That's 3 years above the legal age and only months away from being a legal adult. I do agree with you, there is a line and the line is the law. If it was in any way harmful for one of the participants it wouldn't be legal. A 17 year old is obviously old enough to know who to have sex with.
     
  13. Quantumreality

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Messages:
    4,311
    Likes Received:
    329
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Having lived in Germany myself for almost a decade, I understand and agree that what you are proposing isn't against the law.

    I would simply ask why you made this post in the first place, asking if it is morally right, when the overwhelming response you've gotten so far is that it IS NOT morally right. Regardless of somewhat archaic American laws and traditions. I thought that I presented a pretty clear reason why your actions are morally objectionable. Yet you didn't address my post. Instead you focused on those who presented a 'legal' argument that doesn't exist in Germany.

    I would simply ask if you are avoiding the crux of your own moral concerns by focusing on legal non-issues stated in some posts instead of addressing the moral concerns that you started out with?
     
  14. Mirko

    Admin Team Advisor Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2008
    Messages:
    18,870
    Likes Received:
    3,203
    Location:
    Northern Hemisphere
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    So where is the problem then? If this is how you feel, why ask in the first place?

    The thing which every poster has tried to get across to you is that while it might be legal there are other ramifications that come from engaging in something like this. But you don't seem to be willing to listen or reflect on that. Now, you feel you might need to defend yourself, and perhaps feel trapped in a corner but all we are trying to tell you is to 'think before you act.' If you have reservations, if you feel getting together with the 15 year old doesn't feel right to begin with, that's something to listen to, and acknowledge that this very likely is not the best thing to do.

    Having lived in Germany myself, I can tell you that German society would certainly not find something like this to be something they would approve of, mainly due to ethical considerations and indeed the inappropriateness of this in the first place - even in Berlin.
     
  15. maricamagica

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Berlin
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Having thought about it I've decided not to sleep with the 15 year old, not due to moral objections but rather because his young age and looks hinder my attraction to him. I do feel attracted to him to some extent but the age is also a turn off. Instead I'm going to pursue the sexual relationship with the 17 year old as he's almost a legal adult anyway and he's not so young that it's making me uncomfortable. I think we all can agree on that?
     
  16. Quantumreality

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Messages:
    4,311
    Likes Received:
    329
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Hey maricamagica,

    That sounds like a sound decision to not have sexual relations with the 15 year old. I totally understand your reasoning. But are you going to continue having sexting contact with him or are you going to be a mentor and advise him to get off the dating website?

    And, to be frank, NO we can't 'all' agree that your decision to pursue a sexual relationship with the 17 year old is reasonable. While I understand that you are dismissive of a lot of the posts so far because they come from 'uptight' and 'morally restrictive' Americans, the arguments that we/they have laid out for you are still completely valid. People in their teenage years tend to be much more vulnerable and unintentionally open to abuse. I don't agree with your theory that a 17 year old is definitely able to make his own, reasoned choice. He may or may not, but it depends on the individual.

    From my point of view, what you are looking for is to have sex with 'hot' and presumably 'virgin' guys right now. If you wanted a REAL relationship, you would be looking for guys around your own age. Going after much younger guys (and you can't pretend that going after guys who are 4-6 years younger than yourself isn't very significant at your age) is certainly no way to pursue a long-term relationship. If you try to tell me that it is about anything other than sex, then you are only deluding yourself.

    I would ask you to figure out who you are and who want to be. What kind of future do you want for yourself? Besides the dangers inherent in promiscuity (and it doesn't really lessen simply because the guys you fuck are young), what is it that you want out of your relationships and, ultimately out of life?

    I'm not judging. I'm just asking hard questions in the hope that you will look inside yourself for some answers.
     
    #16 Quantumreality, Feb 18, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
  17. maricamagica

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Berlin
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    I'm pretty sure he's had hook ups with adults before and is continuing to do so. It's not like he's an unknowing virgin, he's able to own up to his sexuality which is why I didn't deem our relationship immoral in the first place. The idea of me telling him who and who not to have sex with is pretty ridiculous. When I was his age I wouldn't have let some stranger on the internet tell me how to handle my sex life either.
     
    #17 maricamagica, Feb 18, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
  18. Quantumreality

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Messages:
    4,311
    Likes Received:
    329
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Sooo, your thought-process is to take ADVANTAGE of him? You clearly have moral qualms or you wouldn't have made this post. Why can't you take him under your wing and advise him, pointing him toward a positive future? Rather than exploiting his current weaknesses?

    There is an American saying "Two wrongs don't make a right." Why would you assume that you are justified in exploiting him simply because he's already been exploited? Especially when you KNOW it's wrong? SO, perhaps, you can help him out by using your influence to get him on a better path in life and helping him to understand that what he has been through up until now is neither positive nor normal.
     
  19. Mirko

    Admin Team Advisor Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2008
    Messages:
    18,870
    Likes Received:
    3,203
    Location:
    Northern Hemisphere
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    You have made the right decision, and it is good that you have given it some more thought.

    As it was mentioned above, do also try to think about what you are looking for in terms of intimacy. It is really just hook-ups that don't mean a whole lot, or perhaps something that can lead to a meaningful relationship. If it is the latter, than I would encourage you to find someone who is closer to your age so that there is something in common on which you could try building a relationship - a relationship where also the balance in 'power' that each have of you have over each other is the same.

    It sounds like you have a good instinct and you can place yourself in the shoes of someone else. So whenever you are not sure about something, try to see it from the other perspective as well, and think about how you would have felt, and what you would have done in a similar if not the same situation. Your instincts can be a good guide.

    That said, always also think about your own moral and ethical perceptions of things. In the end, you don't want to end up being on the wrong side of it, because it could come back to haunt you too.
     
  20. maricamagica

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Berlin
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    If I had the feeling he was being taken advantage of I obviously wouldn't touch him with a 10ft pole. The picture of the vulnerable victim you're painting doesn't apply to a sexually confident teenager, we're talking about teenagers who are able to give consent, not 7 year old children. I would never exploit anyone, I'm quite an empathetic person so if the guy wasn't 100% comfortable, I'd notice and I'd adjust my behaviour but a 17 year old boy with a high sex drive knows what he wants and that is pleasurable sex, so I'd make sure that he gets that.

    I also never claimed I was dating anyone, these are guys from hook up apps and it's exclusively about sex for either of us.

    I'm not fetishizing him as a "hot young virgin boy". I doubt he's a virgin and even if he was, virginity is a made up human concept that demonizes sexuality and implies sexually experienced people are "used" and worth less. Virginity is not a virtue and absolutely worthless to me.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.