1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Relationship advice - I don't know where else to turn...

Discussion in 'Family, Friends, and Relationships' started by Reticens, Mar 8, 2017.

  1. Reticens

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    WA
    Greetings.

    I am new to this forum, and am in need of some advice. I have been with my girlfriend for just shy of a year now, and I love her deeply. We talk often of spending our lives together and eventually do want to get married. Most of the time, everything is wonderful and I'm happier than I've ever been. I'd say everything is as near perfect as it possibly could be, except...she has these mood swings that leave me feeling like I can't do anything right. I'm sorry if this gets long. *sigh*

    Last night is a good example of what I'm talking about. She came home from work, turned on some music, and we fooled around for a while. It was awesome. Then, I got up and made dinner, she played her video games to unwind for a while, and then we curled up to watch some television while chatting about our days, how awesome our fooling around earlier was, etc. Everything was fine and we were laughing and giggling and talking and cuddling like we always do. Everything was pretty par for the course around here. A lovely evening thus far.

    But, then I leaned in and kissed her and playfully asked when I can have my *ahem* "turn" with her (she did all the work when we fooled around earlier in the evening, and I love giving as much as I love receiving). I didn't use that exact phrasing, but basically I expressed my desire. And, just like that, her mood went dark and she said she didn't want to talk about it or she'd get frustrated. Maybe I should have left it alone, but I pressed for her to explain what she meant, because I was genuinely confused and a little taken aback. It felt totally out of the blue and I couldn't figure out what I had done wrong.

    She said she's talked to me before about how she needs to be worked up a little, via me expressing my desires regularly (dirty talk, if you will), and that I obviously don't listen to anything she says. Then she mumbled something about this "feeling very familiar" and compared me to the girls she's been with in the past. It hurt me pretty bad, honestly. She quickly took it back and said that's not what she meant, but you can't really "undo" words, you know?

    The thing is, we HAVE been talking and chatting regularly about our desires. We had talked for quite a while about it that very afternoon, in fact, and also had a bit of steamy conversation the day before. So, again, I was really confused, and told her so. That's when she went into the "obviously it's just me and I have issues because it's always this way with everyone I've been with" and she went silent and rolled over to go to sleep. Still confused and a little worried, I caressed her shoulder (I do this all the time) while I watched tv before also going to sleep (trying to respect her request for me to "drop it), and she said "You don't have to do that, just watch your show. I'm fine." And she started crying quietly. Clearly, she wasn't fine, but I just hugged her and let her fall asleep.

    This morning, she got up and quietly got dressed for work, while barely looking at me. She usually wakes me up when she gets up for work, so we can spend a little time together watching the news and chatting a little before we start our days. I woke up on my own and asked if she was okay and she said she was fine. Again, she clearly was not, but she had to leave, so I let it go. I sent her a message telling her I love her and hope she has a good day, and she responded with "love you too" and has been mostly silent since. We usually chat often throughout the day.

    This is not the first time something like this has happened, and it seems to be happening more frequently. She gets all up in her head about something (the topics vary widely) and goes completely cold toward me. Meanwhile, I'm left confused, worried, scared and upset. As with yesterday, these "episodes" seem to come completely out of the blue, and I feel like I'm constantly walking on eggshells, always afraid that some random thing I say or do will set her off. It's a horrible feeling.

    I apologize for this being so long, but I'm honestly not sure what to do. I can't talk to my friends about this, because I don't want to color their opinion of her just because of my own frustration. I truly love this woman and I do want to marry her, I just don't know how to get past this issue, and it's becoming a BIG one.

    Does anyone have any words of wisdom for me? Anyone at all? Help, please. :bang:
     
  2. Lazuri

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    Messages:
    2,710
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    I won't pretend like I know your relationship and this may not be it, but it sounds like a narcissist power move. It's a manipulative technique to create problems out of nothing and then make it seem so that you're responsible to either avoid something they do not want to deal with or end up in a more powerful position than you in the relationship or both.

    That's not to mean that she's necessarily a bad person, but people with traits of narcissism tend to do this without thinking nor realizing, but their narcissism also keeps them from admitting nor realizing that this is something they need to work with.

    Obviously, please feel free to correct me on ANY of this, because I don't know either of you at all. It's just that based on what you're describing here, that's what it sounds like. Issues like these hit close to home for me and I recognize them easily because I've been in an empath-narcissist relationship as the narcissistic part. I didn't know what I was doing most of the time, but I still ended up hurting somebody very, very badly. I never want to do that ever again and I don't like seeing it in other relationships either as it almost never ends well for at least one of the parts.
     
  3. Reticens

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    WA
    Thank you, Lazuri, for your response. I won't say this possibility hasn't crossed my mind before.

    In my past relationships, my partners were (for the most part) usually willing to admit when they'd overreacted to something, were wrong in an argument, etc., but with her, she will fight tooth and nail to make sure she is "right" and I am in the "wrong," even when we both know that's not the case. At one point, I resorted to apologizing for things I had no real reason to apologize for, just to end the stupid argument, but then she turned that against me, as well, by saying my apologies were worthless because I *never* mean them (including when I really did). Once again, it felt like a no-win situation for me.

    The thing is, she does seem to recognize when she's being irrational or making something out of nothing, but instead of just admitting that, she either turns herself into a martyr (you're going to leave me, I'm just broken, I have issues, I should just shut up and be happy, etc.) or she'll turn the blame on me by picking out something I said in my own defense or out of hurt or confusion and insist I hurt HER, overreacted, spoke irrationally, etc., which effectively switches the focus of our disagreement to something I did "wrong." It's so frustrating.

    For example, last night when she compared me to her exes, I said "It hurts when you compare me to other girls you clearly weren't happy with" and she immediately turned that into "you're just looking for a reason to be upset. that's not what I said/meant. you do the same thing all the time" (I mentioned that maybe I was just used to butch women who hated when I talked dirty about things I wanted to do to THEM, but that I would work on that, so that's were the "you do the same thing all the time" came from). Not the same thing, in my mind, but to her it was enough to shift the blame.

    Anyway, I'm not really sure where to go from here. I can't talk to her about this because it will just drag out the argument and add fuel to the fire, but I also can't keep feeling like I'm failing her at every turn. Guess I should do some reading on narcissistic behavior and empath-narcissistic relationships (because I am very much an empath) and see if anything clicks.

    Thank you again. :slight_smile:
     
  4. Chip

    Board Member Admin Team Advisor Full Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Messages:
    16,560
    Likes Received:
    4,757
    Location:
    northern CA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Hi, and welcome to EC. I can totally understand how frustrating this must be. I've actually lived with someone who had very similar attributes.

    What you're describing could be somewhere on the spectrum of what's known as Borderline Personality Disorder. The characteristics include the hot-and-cold, the "I hate you / don't leave me", the inconsistency and outright contradictory behavior. Neither I nor anyone else can diagnose this without a full diagnostic workup and evaluation, so I don't want to suggest that this is, in fact, the case, only that it is one possibility that fits what you're describing.

    I would suggest taking some time to read up on BPD, and see if what you are experiencing with her seems to match. The challenge is... if it does, there are some very difficult decisions to make. BPD is very treatable for people in their mid-20s or below. It is treatable after that, but becomes progressively more difficult. It also sometimes doesn't start showing up until the early-mid 20s, making things more complicated.

    It's also not easy to approach someone with those symptoms and get them into therapy... and without it, if she does indeed have BPD or something similar, the behaviors will likely get worse, to the point that it is nearly impossible for an emotionally healthy person to live with. It can leave some pretty severe scars on you that can take a long time to heal, and you won't even realize they are there.

    So if I were in your position, my first steps would be to read a bit about this and see if it seems like it's anything close to a match in symptoms. Don't fall in the trap of self-diagnosing; simply read to learn, determine if you feel there's a concern. If you do, then I'd do my best to find a way to encourage her to start therapy. (Perhaps you could suggest both of you do this).

    If this iis the case, and if she's agreeable to this, it's still a challenge for you as to whether you are willing to put up with the situation... it's going to be a long haul before there's meaningful change.

    It's very reasonable for you to decide you don't want to do this. It's also reasonable to decide you do. That part is really up to you.
     
  5. Lazuri

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    Messages:
    2,710
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    I think you should look into it, yeah, because I recognize my old self in a lot of her behavior from what you've said here. When I read up on that stuff after that relationship ended, the description of it was so accurate that it frightened me and if you feel the same way after reading up on it, you know what you're dealing with.

    Like I said, it doesn't mean she's a bad person and a lot of it is sub-conscious behavior or behavior that's been sort of taught to you. I, for example, learned a lot of it from the way my dad treats my mom.

    However, if she refuses to recognize this herself and won't change (which narcissists frequently will refuse.), it would, in my honest opinion, be best to just end it. Because when I say that these relationships don't go anywhere good, I mean it. The empath always thinks "it's going to get better" and keeps holding onto those moments where everything is perfect as a sort of false hope, but it doesn't get better, it just keeps getting worse as you grow weaker until you have no power left in the relationships and in some cases even lose track of your very own identity. Those moments where everything is perfect, will keep you around, but the misery that surrounds them just isn't worth it.

    It disgusts me knowing I did this to somebody else once and the only way I recovered from it is because that relationship eventually ended and as soon as we had been apart for a while, they eventually found their voice and just absolutely ruined me. It made me realize how much I wrecked them and after a period of wallowing in self-pity, I did some research on the matter, learned to recognize these dark behaviors and catch myself in the act so I could shut myself down. I don't do it any longer at all, but it takes a lot of effort and hard work and, most importantly, I realized myself that this is not the person I want to be; it's not very common for a narcissist to admit their own fault on such a level, even just to themselves. Worst case scenario, learn to recognize the behaviors yourself and shut her down when she employs them or learn to recognize the weaknesses of your own empath personality and avoid the pitfalls that they bring.

    I wish you luck and I really hope it works out. You are very smart to do some research; it's the best weapon you can have in this struggle and I'd want you to be better armed than my ex was.
     
  6. Moonsparkle

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2017
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    681
    Location:
    Northeast US
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Hi Reticens and welcome to EC,

    I am familiar with this dynamic and pattern in a relationship too, **sigh**. A couple of things struck me in your post, 'I am constantly walking on eggshells; I can't talk to her about this because it would just prolong the argument and add fuel to the fire.'

    In my experience, 'eggshell walking' and an inability to communicate with a partner for fear of 'making things worse, setting her off more' etc. etc. etc., is a real sign of a power imbalance in a relationship. Your reluctance to call her out on these random comments is understandable of course (I allowed this too for a while!), who wants to rock the boat more, it SEEMS easier just to let it go. BUT, in the end it is NOT easier. You are left feeling like crap, tiptoeing around and just HOPING you don't 'do' anything more to set her off. So basically she ends up controlling the relationship...it does not become a give and take, with genuine communication about problems, issues, wants and needs. It is SOOO hard though when you love someone so much. But my guess is this pattern and dynamic will continue unless you do something to stop it.

    And stopping it will require you to be completely honest with her, even if it means adding fuel to the fire. You can use all those 'I feel' statements. Tell her how her comments make you feel. And don't get thrown off if she tries to debate your feelings with 'youre just looking to be upset, that's not what meant..' Your feelings are YOUR feelings and valid in their own right. (Took me some experience with a therapist to realize and honor that for myself!) She says she knows she is being irrational--fine, but turning herself into a martyr is not taking responsibility. And going into 'victim-mode' is also not taking responsibility.

    I agree with Chip that there does seem to be some behaviors of her that are consistent with those of a person with Borderline Personality Disorder. But again, none of us can really know.

    The bottom line here is who wants to have to tiptoe around conversations always being
    on 'high alert' for fear of saying something that is
    going to throw the other person into a tailspin? I spent a lot of time in a relationship on this high alert status...and kept justifying it because sometimes things seemed so great. But it was just not a comfortable place to be.

    There is a possibility that things CAN get better! If you both work together. The first step will be putting it out there and admitting there is a problem, and going from there. Joint counseling might be helpful. All the best to you!
     
  7. Sawyer

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    199
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Toronto
    Gender:
    Female
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    As someone who has been in a relationship (use that term very loosely), not walking on eggshells per say, but unequal power balance where there was no 'we' or 'us' and only 'her'...not only was it unhealthy, it was also unsustainable.

    It's not uncommon to have arguments in a relationship, but if you can't resolve them, or the blame falls solely on one person--is that really a relationship? And is it good for your own mental health if you have to watch everything you say and do?

    You situation reminds me a lot about my family. My step-grandmother's daughter was in an abusive relationship with a man. Honestly, they looked so in love, like nothing was wrong. It wasn't until he beat her badly that everyone knew the truth. Not saying that your gf is the same and abusive, but she did say that when the abuse began she had to watch everything she did and said to not set him off. And even then, it would be minuscule things that would set him off.

    It's not healthy if you can't be yourself and if you have to watch everything you say and do. In the end, you might grow to resent her. Or, if you find another relationship you may think walking on eggshells is the norm and damage another relationship.
     
  8. Reticens

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    WA
    Thank you so much, everyone, for your replies. It really helps to see that I'm not the only one who has ever dealt with this.

    I spent yesterday afternoon doing some research on narcissistic and borderline personality traits, and they both seem to have a lot in common with each other, to the point that I could see where it would be hard for a non-professional to tell the difference. That said, some of the traits of narcissism don't really fit her at all, like an inflated sense of self (if anything, she constantly thinks she's NOT good enough and that I will leave her because of it). A lot of her behaviors really do look a lot like BPD, however, and some of the personal accounts I read look really familiar. *sigh* As others have said, none of us could really diagnose her, but it's good to at least have a starting point for myself to work with.

    Yesterday, after reading some of the responses here and doing a LOT of research on my own, I made the decision to not engage her (via messages) throughout the day, and instead only answered briefly when she messaged me. This is not the norm for me after a "disagreement," as I typically go into "omg how can I fix this?!? mode" and try everything to calm her down/make her happy/etc. Not the healthiest, I know. Anyway, by late afternoon she messaged me an old photo of us and said she missed me and was thinking about me, and we chatted a while like nothing was wrong. I suspect she sensed I wasn't going to play into her inner-drama and was making sure I wasn't ready to walk out on her lol.

    Last night when she came home from work, she was still unusually quiet, but trying to maintain light conversation. I went about my routine, as usual. Made dinner, caught up on The Voice, asked her about her day, etc. She mentioned she was "worried and frustrated" and I told her I was too, but that I suspected it was for different reasons. She went quiet, so I calmly said that we were going to need to address it and that it's not going to resolve itself. She agreed and asked me to go first, so I did.

    I told her that I felt like her anger came out of nowhere and that I felt confused and frustrated, because I can't work with that. I need direct communication. I will never be a mind reader, and I thought it was unfair of her to expect me to know what she needs or wants if she hasn't expressed those things to me clearly. I also said I felt like she has a tendency to punish me with silence whenever things don't happen exactly the way she would like them too, and that this was not the first time this has happened and it's becoming a very big problem for me.

    She tried to argue for a minute, but quickly realized nothing she was saying actually made sense, and then, surprisingly, she apologized. We spent the next hour talking things out (calmly), and for now we are good. I felt like i was heard, and, I think, she feels like she was heard, as well.

    I know this will happen again, however, because, as I said in my original post, this is not the first time this has happened. The only difference this time is that I disengaged completely until we could talk calmly. I guess my next move now is to decide what I want to do with all of this. I may suggest couples counseling and see how she responds. All I know is that I can't keep walking on eggshells while waiting for the shit storm to happen again.
     
  9. Moonsparkle

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2017
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    681
    Location:
    Northeast US
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Reticens--it sounds like you have really thought about this and have made some changes to your behavior/reactions, both in your words(you were clear, honest and direct with her) and actions (disengaging and not 'feeding in' to her behaviors). Not jumping in to 'save her, fix her, make it better.'

    Good for you!:slight_smile: