I didn't know whether this forum or the LGBT Later in Life one would be most suited for my questions and concerns .. I'll go ahead and try this one! Quick background, I'm still married to a woman, separated though for a few months, 2 kids (adults), and still in the closet. I did not have any sexual relationships with neither men nor women other than my wife. August of last year I started chatting with another man online and kind of liked his personality, he asked if we could skype and we did. I found myself more attracted to him since then, we skyped several times and I came out to him. I felt and still feel very comfortable with him. I visited him in his town (6hrs drive) once. I thought that from the chatting style we had some kind of close connection, so when I met him another time a few weeks ago I told him that I developed some feelings towards him, and made it clear that I have no "hook up" desires, and that I would like to build a stronger and long term relationship. He replied that he likes me as a friend and that he doesn't have any amorous feelings towards me. We agreed to continue as friends, and I'm ok with it. I'm dealing with my emotions but I would love to keep him as a friend .. the first guy that I met, felt comfortable with, came out to, and have a great mutual respect between each others. My question is, being friends, gay friends, and we are both old enough now (I'm 51 and he is 58), what is proper and what is an improper way to complement him, let's say on his physical traits (e.g. eyes, smile, giggle ...etc.), would it be too much if I tell him that he has beautiful eyes for example? I'm totally naive when it comes to flirting or sending subtle messages and I do not want to offend him in any way. Would it be proper to hug him tight? touch him on his shoulder or arm? how far is far enough? I'm originally from the middle east and men do touch each others, hug tightly and kiss on the cheeks, hold hands and sometimes hands around the waist .. all acts of friendships and nothing sexual to it. But I find it extremely awkward that he knows that I'm gay and I would treat him this way? any ideas? suggestions?
It's hard to say - partly because, as you say, expectations and norms will vary by culture, and sometimes by region of a country, or even person to person. In my experience, it's typically unusual for straight men in the States to hug tightly - but gay men, even if just friends, are usually more likely to hug. I wouldn't tell anyone they have beautiful eyes if I wasn't trying to flirt with them, though. On the other hand, if you're going to be friends with this man, maybe you could tell him about your confusion here. It's certainly something that friends would talk about, and he'll know what he's comfortable with better than anyone, after all.
Are you sure you are comfortable just being friends? Are you hoping that maybe it leads to something more? Have you adressed your sexuality with your wife? Where are you in addressing your sexuality with yourself? Hope your following the threads in the Later in Life section, you might be enlightened quite a bit from the experiences of others there and should feel free to join the discussions!
I'm still getting over the thoughts of a possible deeper relationship with him .. I had high hopes at the beginning! still have some hopes that this friendship might lead to something bigger but at the same time trying to fight it and let go .. live the moment, enjoy his company whenever we are together. It is out of question to even try to open up to my wife, first of all I firmly believe that I was a subject of abuse and manipulation from her for all those years of marriage, coming out to her would be like giving her another tool that she can use against me. Second, our upbringing, culture, and religion would be a huge barrier against her understanding or come even close to understanding how it feels to live a straight life for a gay man. I'm in the process of healing, internalized homophobia, as you mention in several of your replies and posts, is a major issue with me. I know that I'm gay, I cannot deny it, and I'm accepting it as a fact in my life, life choices are my struggles though. When I think about it, I do not feel comfortable integrating within a gay community, but would be highly inclined to having a meaningful, long term relationship (even marriage) than the typical hook ups, or typical dating ideas. When I knew this man, I was totally sold that he could be the one, and still is .. so I wouldn't rule out trying to know him better and letting him know me better too .. who knows.
I personally found living behind an emotional wall to be very difficult. It had many consequences, one of which was creating an emotional barrier between my exwife and myself. The lack of real emotional support and vulnerability on my part caused her to recipericate and neglect me emotionally just the same. Is it possible you might have similar dynamics at play with your wife which might have lead to your perception that she has abused and manipulated you?
Here's my take, I think in general with a gay friend, you could probably be pretty complementary and even touchy/feely (unless you know specifically that the person doesn't like that sort of thing). But I think with this particular friend, especially since you told him you have feelings for him, he would read into any compliments or touching as being flirty. Since he shot you down already, I imagine that would make him uncomfortable. So I wouldn't do those things with him.
I personally don't believe so. The level of abuse and manipulation I received from her was early on in the marriage, although then I was dedicated to the marriage and exchanging my emotions with her at a level I've never done with anyone in my life. It didn't become obvious to me until I paid my first therapist a visit .. I thought, as you describe, that my gay urges were the problem, but from stories I told him he made it clear to look at different personality disorders (narcissism, borderline ...etc.), although never diagnosed, but I believe that she have some of those traits. The isolation, gas lighting, intimidation, lying, using kids to manipulate my decisions and emotions ...etc. and many other issues that I allowed to happen early on in my life became evident when I talked to my therapist. I was dedicated to the marriage and I always wondered what if she was a loving and caring wife? would I still be acting out my homosexual urges? would I be thinking the same way? I'm a very romantic and sensible person by nature and the emotional and intellectual intimacies have been always of primal importance to me .. sex and physical intimacies are great .. but I question whether they'd be that important to me if I had a caring person who reciprocated my feelings? I guess I'll never know .. because I'm not ready to try this experience over again! and I'm not ready to try it again with my wife in case she's changed (as described by my son) .. nobody changes in personality in a few months! if not ever.
It really seems to be your trying to remain inauthentic and live two lives. Regardless of how you perceive your wife's personality, you did make commitment to her to be faithful. it would seem the right thing to do would be to talk with your wife and lay the cards on the table. Let the chips fall where they may. Your only fooling yourself with the "relationship" with this guy. Your "hoping" it turns into something more, but that is most likely purely fantasy. Sorry to be so blunt. You clearly have some deep self esteem issues your dealing with. The only way to deal with them properly is to be honest with yourself, honest with your wife and do the hard work required in order to begin leading an authentic life.
Living two lives is inevitable for me .. I don't see it changing any time soon. I might be on the right path of living here in the US as who I am, but back home in the middle east it'd be detrimental if anyone knew who I really am .. I do care to have a family, and extended one too, it means a lot to me .. and I don't see that it'd be even imaginable that any of them would accept me of who I am .. I might be wrong, but homosexuality in the middle east is a taboo at a totally different scale than in the west. Thanks for putting it out there OTH, I know that I'm living a fantasy with this guy, and I appreciate it when you put it bluntly like that .. Every now and then I need a slap on the face to wake up! I might have some self-esteem issues and I'm working on it. But at the same time I still don't see an obvious reason for me to just come out to my wife, or anyone else for that matter .. I'm still convinced that no one on this earth has anything to do with my sexual orientation, I'd come out to whomever I deem important to know and when I feel it is most appropriate .. I'd come out if I have a partner, someone with whom I'd spend more than usual time with, then, and then only, some people in my life might need further explanation, like my kids. Other than that I don't care if anyone knew or not. As straight men don't make it public that they are straight .. I won't make it public that I'm gay .. Being authentic is not to define myself as gay or straight .. I am who I am, straight or gay I'll be the same person with the same values and life goals. Currently, it is a wait time for divorce. Comes this fall things should be straighten up with regards to finalizing it. I'd have my daughter married, son sent to college, and wife divorced .. this is my plan. Till then it is a waiting and planning time. I'm planning to get more involved with the gay community around my area later in the year. And possibly coming out to some of my close friends at work who are known for gay friendliness and support. It is a tough time for me like many other gay men, but it'll pass and life will go on.
