My story (or my saga) and how to help another person in the closet

At first I was going to say this is a little background info, but that's a lie. Since this is by far the most honest I've been to anyone else about my sexuality, I might as well explain it all. Apologies for any typos; I am always revising my sentences, and sometimes I fail to check if what I write makes sense in the final version.

I'm gay

I have known since probably 7th or 8th grade that I am gay, and it was like a complete shock since when I became sexually aware (only for ~2 years), I had the standard straight crushes (especially this beautiful red haired girl), and even got into watching straight porn. This is what happens when a teen in puberty is left home alone during the summer. I remember going through a denial phase of trying to rekindle my straight feelings, going through the standard assumption that maybe I'm actually bi until accepting that I was gay.

and closeted

However, I am an extremely introverted person (which I don't mind since that's my personality) and have stayed in the closet since my family is Catholic but also Indian, where dating is basically non-existant until kids go college (at which point they need to find someone to marry or their parents will start looking for them!). It also didn't help that I grew up in a very conservative state, where the few gay kids that were out were only the most flamboyant ones. I'm not only introverted but also a very stoic person who likes to be very rational and avoid emotions clouding my judgment, which definitely includes romantic/sexual feelings.

though some people probably know

My best friend back from elementary school moved away after middle school, and he eventually came out in college, and I kept my distance even though I'm friends with him on facebook. He was probably the closest indicator that I might be gay. I know it's rude, but we also drifted apart in terms of interests (me towards the sciences; him towards the humanities). However "drifting apart" is a little bit of a misnomer since I am very independent and normally prefer being alone to social time.

like this guy

Also in high school, I had a huge crush on an older student I had known for a couple of years (both in church and at school) I was an acquaintance, while he was a popular and fun-loving guy who was almost certainly straight (had a long-time girlfriend and lots of guy friends). Eventually, I asked if he was ever staring at me (because I had obviously been staring at him!). His answer was no, and I was devastated, doing my best afterward to avoid looking at him or seeming interested. Interestingly, he broke up with the girlfriend later, and she came out in college, which makes me wonder... But, that ship has sailed, and I got over him (usually through other crushes). However, like the saying "once bitten, twice shy," I stopped any direct contact and kept my distance from all possible crushes. I think part of me had the fantasy that I would come out if my crush liked me back, knowing in the back of my mind he was most likely straight.

and probably this guy

College was really a blur. I took classes and commuted from home, so I effectively shielded myself from making any close friends besides classmates. I later worked as a research assistant since I wanted to be a research scientist. I had some crushes, and this was also the first time that I think someone liked me. He was a fellow classmate and semi-closeted, and out of the blue he joined my research lab. Unfortunately, even during classes, I felt he was a little pompous, and that coupled with my internalized fearing of being outed meant that I gave him the cold shoulder. I'm pretty sure he was the one who put up another undergrad in our lab, a girl, to ask if I knew about ******, implying I was gay. I am good at reading other people, and I said I didn't know what it was (I was vaguely aware of it), and went along with her apology about thinking I was gay. So, it was a slightly tense situation until the guy finally left (he gave me a really long look when he said his last goodbye, and I put on my most stoic face).

but now I'm finally on my own

Only now that I finally moved far away from my hometown for graduate school have I started to warm up to the idea of coming out. This was a big step since I really regretted I never applied to any out of state schools as an undergrad, even when I could have gone almost any school due to my grades. I honestly think that I just had too much social aversion (I kept thinking about silly things like how I would deal with a roommate who would likely be straight). So, I took the easy choice of going to the best in-state school.

and I want to change

So far, I've maintained my introversion, and I have had two significant crushes. For some reason, I still keep going to church, mostly because I have a philosophical tendency, but also because there is a dinner after the Mass (this church is right next to the university). So, it's a nice, controlled social situation. Thankfully most Catholic churches I've gone to don't talk about sexuality much; anti-abortion messages are probably the most inflammatory things I hear. It seems like more than a few guys may be in the closet, and I actively try to avoid giving them the wrong impression.

yet I keep having deja vu

As much as I tried not to, I eventually fell for a nice guy who is quiet. However, he is not one people would think as gay, and he has a girlfriend (Are you sensing a pattern?), though neither he nor she have posted pics of both of them on facebook. He is very religious; his youtube account showed he liked mostly religious videos (including one against gay marriage). It was a similar situation with the guy from high school; I thought we were sharing more than passing glances. So, I sent him a fairly innocuous message about helping out with some activity, which he never responded to, though he paid much more attention to me while staying very quiet. I don't expect much, and I was even perfectly fine with this unrequited love...

and again, except not

I was fine until I joined my current research lab and a high school student came for a summer internship. Immediately he began looking at me with puppy-like eyes, more than anyone I've ever met. He is often trying to look at me when I'm at my desk. It's deliberate because sometimes he has to duck to see my face below some cabinets. He is a little effeminate. I did some FB stalking of him, and it turns out he performs in his school musicals and posts about seeing the opera. For the longest time we played the silent staring game until finally we were in a conversation with another lab member. From then on, he has a big smile whenever he talks to me. The first time this happened, I couldn't stop grinning to myself for a minute or so.

here's my question, finally!

But, he's 17 (I'm 24) and goes to a Catholic high school (even when I'm not crushing on a Catholic, I'm crushing on a Catholic...), and I think it would be inappropriate to pursue anything more than a friendship. So, I try to suppress my feelings for him. Today, I felt like a total jerk when I ignored him walking behind me (normally he eats with his fellow students) and went to a distant cafeteria instead of the closer cafe for lunch. And here lies the crux of the problem. I don't want him to go on being disappointed like I was when I was in high school, without getting sucked into fueling strong feelings. I'm thinking of sending him an email after he has left, apologizing for ignoring him. Any suggestions are appreciated.

 

Yes, but it's hard to be friends when you have a crush and they know it. There is this girl, another graduate student in my program, who has a crush on me, and I was so oblivious until after we had gone out for coffee twice that she liked me. Even though we're still friends, I now try to avoid acting like I'm giving her special attention.

 

Yes, I definitely don't want any sexual relationship with a minor.

I agree about opening up, though really I don't refuse to talk with people. I know it may seem like avoiding social contact is a bad thing, since the US culture favors extroversion, but I've always been fine doing things by myself (I was an only child, but I don't think that made me an introvert) since I was a toddler. My MBTI personality type is INTP, so I am far from the vast majority of people. In person, I am actually friendly and helpful (I put a lot of emphasis on being consistent in dealing with everyone), to the point that I'm often friends with people others shun.

I understand about talking to my elementary school friend, and I did talk to him occasionally when I started having classes in his department. I agree that studying different things is no reason to avoid contact; I should have been more specific and say that I drifted apart because most of my friends in college were those who took the same classes.

Thanks for the advice.

 

Hi everyone, here are my updates.

So, the older guy I have a crush on still avoids talking directly to me, but he is not unfriendly. Unfortunately, there hasn't been an opportunity to talk to him alone. The only missed opportunity was when I was heading home for the night and surprised to see him waiting to cross an intersection. I really wanted to say out loud good bye, but I couldn't get the words out of my mouth. He saw me just as I arrived at the street corner and the crosswalk light turned on for him, and he curiously crouched while walking, petted the dog of another person coming from the opposite direction, and then looked at me to smile briefly. This strange experience sent my normally brooding mind into overdrive.

As for the high school guy, while there are still some feelings for him, things have been much more comfortable since we are now on talking terms. I think the biggest alleviation was when he gave me a ride to our lab's barbecue at a state park. I really wasn't thinking about it, but when another lab member mentioned this guy had a car on the spot in front of both of us, I felt obligated to ask him (the other option was someone who is very terse and imposing). Our conversation through the trip was very tame and about school/hobbies, and I realized he is more grounded than I thought (he goes to a private school and I've always gone to public schools) since he is working another part-time job. I wish I had been more proactive during my high school summers.

Other interactions:

I think there is a janitor who pays a little more attention than usual to me, and I actively avoid looking at him. I'm not attracted to him, but I can't help but feel classist (i.e. assuming that we would have little in common).

I also have a few bus crushes; those long rides definitely give you time to realize if someone is looking back at you (it's exciting if a cute guy repays your attention). But, usually those interactions are very temporary. There is one guy who often comes at the same stop near my house, and he seems to be one of those "lookers." However, I always get nervous with bus crushes if other passengers can observe us, to the point that I will sometimes try to look straight at opposite window and meditate to clear my mind.

There are also these two attractive guys who would alway sit in the same two seats, which are separated from other seats by the back door and the folded handicap ramp. One guy has very beautiful hazel eyes. The other is taller but still above average in appearance. Such people are intimidating to talk to. I don't know for sure, but I think they're European (in my head, I've call them the "hot French guys", lol). One or both of them works in the same or a nearby building because I've recently been seeing them eating lunch in the benches outside my building. I wish I knew where they worked because they never get off with me on the stop next to my building.

More recently, I think the hot French guys also recognize me, at least when I pass by them during lunch. I'm saying all this because today, the tall guy was alone and someone was sitting in his normal seat, so he had to sit on my side. Then he started to look in my direction (more than a few seconds), looking away if I ever turned my head, though sometimes he would wait. I would have tried seeing how long he could keep a gaze if it weren't for a stupid undergrad who decided to sit in the very back of the bus, making any staring contest a little too obvious.

Also, I have noticed that as I've been inching closer to coming out, I sometimes think that other gay guys can sense this and start paying more attention to me. Maybe I've just become less self-conscious and worried about what others might think.

 

An update:

So, besides the "hot French guys" (who I've only seen a few of times at their lunch table, and never on the bus since my last post ) there was another guy who caught my attention because he gets on the same bus stop. We had seen each other a few times, and while he made some eye contact on the bus, I didn't really think much of him.

Well, today I saw this guy again, and it turned out we had both just missed the last bus, so there was ~15 minutes for the next one to arrive. Much to my pleasure, we talked for the first time, and it turns out he is a med student and works a few buildings away from my own. He likes skiing and other outdoor activities, so he was surprised that I had never gone to the many national parks in this state (I don't have a car, and I'm not a big outdoors person).

I did talk about my own interests like traditional archery; luckily I can usually count on the people having no prior knowledge, allowing me to explain it to them. Needless to say, when someone I kind of like all of a sudden pays so much attention to me, I start thinking about them a lot and analyzing all prior interactions. However, I just looked up his social media pages, and nothing really indicates he might be gay/bi. Probably just another friendly straight guy.

Meanwhile, me and the high school guy are now more comfortable working together, and I felt bad that I said I'm working on an experiment on Saturday (when he was apparently also working since we use the same instrument), and I just flaked on him (I did text him to apologize and tell not to leave the machine on) and waited till Monday. However, he has now been smiling at me, which is nice since he often had such a sad, longing look before. Anyway, I'm leaving to go back home next week, and unfortunately he'll be done that week as well. I guess it's best that the goodbye will be done with soon.

 

A little update:

I went home for a week, and I was glad to see my parents (I'm an only child), but not glad to see the family problems with them (my dad has been unemployed for over a year and is using a health problem to get out of doing any work) are still there. I was most grateful to spend time with my mom, who I know really missed me. I got to see a lot of my cousins and relatives since we hosted an event.

However, there was an uncomfortable talk with one of my uncles who is pretty outspoken about me getting married. He is a very traditional Indian in saying I should choose someone because of their education/job and having the same religion and [sub]ethnicity, which goes against everything I stand for since I was born and brought up in the US. It was actually a little revolting how businesslike he made marriage sound, and I'm always grateful my own parents have given me space and never talked much about relationships/marriage.

Unfortunately, I really don't know how I can come out to these kinds of very traditional people. I think there maybe one or two older relatives (mostly second cousins) who are gay, but they basically disappeared from our "family map" in terms of never visiting or attending family functions except for funerals/weddings. All I can really think is that I'm sure my mom, who has had a sad life due to my dad and his family, would eventually accept me as being gay. She is not super religious but just has a strong sense of morality/compassion (righteousness in all the positive senses of the word).

As for my crushes, I was gone the last week of "High School Guy's" internship, so we never had a real goodbye. On one of his social media pages, there's a picture of him in his car full of streamers for high school prom, with the caption saying "She said yes!" Except, he has a forced smile and doesn't look at all excited. I hope he goes out of state for college, where he can have some distance to figure out his life.

I saw the Hot French Guys eating lunch today, and I can't help but hoping they are not here only for the summer, also. Maybe I'll see them on the bus, especially the tall one.

Speaking of hot guys, I didn't mention another guy who works in a lab a few rooms down the hall (our building is new and has open/connected labs). This guy is very fit and good-looking, someone I would think as straight since I've seen him with some girl before. He always dresses nicely with well-fitting clothes like chinos (definitely above average for scientists) and is even more attractive when he sometimes comes with a baseball cap and scruffy beard. I will call him "Chino guy", lol.

Chino guy is one of those people one longs to catch their glance for even a second, to entertain for a short momen the idea they might reciprocate even a fraction of the interest you have for them. For the most part, I usually ignore most of these feelings since they only seem to be pure infatuation and I don't want to make a straight guy uncomfortable. Today, I was talking to a female student whose desk is near mine, and I literally could not finish my sentence for 15 seconds after this guy walked by our desks and briefly looked at me.

 

Hey thanks!

Today was a little late for my normal bus, which I was hoping I could catch the Hot French Guys or Other Bus Guy, but I had to respond to emails for some important data from collaborators at a different university, then couldn't find my keys, etc. To my pleasure, the Hot French Guys came aboard, sitting exactly in their favored seats across from me even though the back bus door wasn't opened. I have a good mind to one day sit there and see how they react (What can I say? I'm a scientist, so I like experiments :icon_bigg). It now seems likely that only Tall Guy is the one who is more interested in me.

I saw Chino guy in close fitting burgundy chino shorts icon_redf), but the two times he walked by my desk, he was looking the other way. :/ I think guys (and girls) are much hotter when they're oblivious to their beauty.

 

Thanks! I thought I liked physics until I took the physics for science majors courses, LOL.

Also, I just want to give an update on the Hot French Guys. Turns out I'm not good at hearing accents, and only now did I realize they're actually German (or German-speakers) as they said hello to the bus driver and talked to each other. It's surprising how smooth native German speakers can sound when speaking; unlike the rough/harsh syllables normally associated with the language. Today was serious deja vu; me and the Hot German Guys were the only ones on the bus, and later during lunch, the tall guy was coming with his lunch while I was going to the cafeteria.

 

Replies

Thank you all. I like giving a good yarn (and reading/hearing them, too!). That's probably why I did much, much better on my verbal score than the quantitative score for the GRE (but science grad programs don't care about verbal ).

As for being a hottie, I would have to say I'm average at best. It doesn't help that the non-conformist in me hates to look too fashionable or overtly change my appearance of looking like a skinny nerd, though now I've finally come around to the idea of working out both for archery and just to be healthier. It's hard not to fall into this mode since everyone in this city seems to be so outdoorsy, from skiing to hiking, rock-climbing, bouldering, etc. When we were having a new student meeting for my program, almost every student (except me and a few others) said their activities were one of the previously mentioned (especially rock-climbing).

Anyway, I'm still not ready to come out until I have a broader idea of what that will mean. The problem is that I've embedded myself with many people who may not be supportive. This includes most of my extended family (not to mention relatives in India), many of which I'm pretty close and looked up to as the "perfect kid" due to my academic achievements (and lack of extra-curricular "scandals"). However, most of my school friends would be fine.

Church stuff

But, there are other things. For example, I still go to church (I can probably count on one hand the number times I've missed weekly Mass; having the threat of a mortal sin was a big reason...), and I've befriended a lot of people, many of whom are students. Like I've said before, there seem to be a few closet cases.

For example, there's this one tall, dark-haired young guy who comes with his parents and I sometimes think is interested in me, especially today when I was arriving a few minutes late and saw him looking pretty intensely at me while behind his parents since they were late, also. I couldn't see him, until he left to go to the bathroom and came in a spot with a clear view between us... He never stays for the dinner, so I can't really tell what's going on, and he is probably underage like High School Guy if he still comes with his parents.

Church Guy

And then there's him. The nice guy from church I mentioned in my first post. Today, we didn't have a real dinner because there was a reception for a lay religious group (basically glorified hors d'oeuvres). After a month and a half of this guy almost completely ignoring me (except for the first week after my message) like I was invisible when we were close to each other (e.g. small groups) while sometimes playing the staring game when we're far apart, out of the blue he asked me and some other people eating at a table with me if we wanted to go out to get some food "because you are probably still hungry". He still could hardly look at me directly.

My heart kind of skipped a beat, and I was secretly irritated when the other guys said they would prefer to go home. I was thinking of doing the same, but I finally picked up the courage to get up and talk to him (honestly, I was starving since I just had a bowl of plain rice for lunch). I was still a little nervous, so I said I'll come if others are coming. He spent a long time talking with his "girlfriend" and her friend and some older people (some old people never know when to quit!), and I spent my time talking to two girls who had agreed to come. I'm not sure if he's really still with his girlfriend or maybe they're actually in a LTR that just seems distant and aloof. I can't find her FB page now, and she's not listed under his friends possibly due to account deletion. I doubt she would have put extreme privacy controls.

Eventually, "Church Guy" came back to me and the two girls, apologizing that the "girlfriend" wasn't coming. So, we set off to Village Inn (a diner that stays open late), the girls in one car. I was excited to go with Church Guy, but we had another older guy with some mental/health disability. Though the other guy is harmless and I often talk to him (Church guy seems to share this tendency to talk to older people), I really wished it was just me and Church Guy alone. At the diner, it turned out the girls weren't really hungry, one of them only drinking water; the other, hot chocolate. Actually, none of us except the older guy was very hungry, so I just got a Belgian waffle, while Church guy got a slice of pie and fries (and odd combo, but it seemed to work). We all talked for quite a while, with some interesting topics.

I normally don't maintain eye contact, but this time I kept trying to read Church Guy's eyes, which were a beautiful brown thanks to the low hanging light at our table. Sometimes while he or I was talking, we would be looking directly at each other for 5-10 seconds. I kept trying to see if his pupils were dilating (this is apparently a potential indicator of sexual preference). He brought up references to a religious retreat (though it was very moving), so I really am unsure about whether he's even curious or not. All in all, I was very happy to spend so much time with him (but sad to know he'll be graduating with his masters in December), probably a little too happy since I just sent him a facebook friend request. :X Yeah, I know that if he's a closet case, he will be a tougher nut to crack than I am, but after being gone a full week, I'm reminded of this quote:

"Absence is to love what wind is to fire; it extinguishes the small, it inflames the great."
― Roger de Bussy-Rabutin

:icon_redf

Next, I need to get some courage and talk to the Hot German Guys...

 

Just a little note.

German guy

Today, I once again got up late and managed to miss three buses in a row (I easily get distracted and don't have a good sense of timing). However, I was glad to see on the bus a fellow student (now in pharmacology/toxicology) who rotated in my lab. She and I had a great science discussion, especially since she may be doing some assays for a project I'm working with.

I was even more glad when the tall German guy came on the bus alone (and sat in his favored seat). How I wished we were the only two on the bus! The fellow student and I continued our discussions, and I could tell the tall guy was listening in. I couldn't help but look at him a couple of times while I was talking to my friend. Later in the journey, a chemistry friend I had classes with came to the back of the bus. When the fellow student and I were getting of, I waved goodbye at my chemistry friend, but my eyes drifted to the tall guy partially blocking my view of her (almost like I was saying bye to him...which I probably was subconsciously).

Church guy

Lucky for me, Church guy accepted my FB request. Lo and behold, his final post last evening was a link on "the loneliness of singlehood." Maybe this is a sign he broke up with his girlfriend. However, if I am really being objective, he's more religious and conservative than I thought. He posts a lot about traditional male-female relationships (though in a fairly positive manner) such that even if he is not straight, it's hard to see how he could separate himself from his religious support base.

 

So, I really am hating myself for being a pseudo-stalker and always trying to see the hot German guys on the bus at ~9:30 because that means I'm coming in "late" for work. Doing research, I don't have a set schedule, but I normally work 9 hours a day, meaning I can only finish around 6:30-7. In any case, the day after my last post, I saw only the shorter (he's still taller than me...) German guy, and I really thought about asking a "leader question" about whether the language he and the tall guy was German. Obviously, I know that, but it's a good icebreaker to ask someone to explain something they know well.

In any case, Thursday and Friday were no luck (I saw them wearing shirts with the school logo; hopefully those weren't souvenirs because they're leaving?!), and I kept kicking myself since the "other bus guy" whom I have actually talked to takes the bus at the earlier times (~8:30) that I should have been using. It's crazy what a person will do when they have a crush.

Anyway, I'm writing this post mainly because, on Facebook, I just posted a picture of me that even I consider to be a good view since I got new glasses and a haircut. I got quite a few likes from my friends (mostly female, as is expected for a closeted guy...), but I just saw that Church guy also liked it! :icon_redf I really wish he is straight, because if he isn't, he's playing too much with my heart (and has internalized a lot self-hate by sticking so closely with the official Church teachings).

 

:/ Yesterday, I was going home on the train (note: when I mean trains, I mean light rail that has a line going through my university). I had looked at the arrival time on my phone, and assumed I was going to be late. That was until I saw the tall German guy already at the platform. This was only the second time I'd seen him in the evening, and all of a sudden I got a sudden urge to catch the train. I think he recognized me because as I rushed to get my card scanned and into the train, he was still standing outside (everyone else went in) until I had gotten near enough.

Then I made a dumb mistake (or panicked) and sat in the back upper seats. The train cars are split in three segments with flexible accordion-like joints between them: front and back pieces with an upper seats on the ends (I think above the wheels) and then lower handicapped/bicycle seating near the doors, and a middle segment between the joints of also lower seating. The seats are a little cramped for leg room, so most of the time even though they are four spots (like a restaurant booth), two people will sit caddy corner to each other (thus getting more leg room). Anyway, what this means is it would be awkward for him to walk across the whole car and come up and sit near me. However, he did walk closer to me and sit near the handicapped area below, where I could see him.

Eventually we came to "our" stop (this is also near where he and the other guy normally get on the bus), and the shorter German guy was outside in cute gym shorts (not sure if he was meeting the tall one). Anyway, I'm frustrated that I can't seem to talk to either of these guys. I think part of it is that they are friends and possibly roommates. I know this because sometimes I've seen them both wear the same shirts two days in a row (likely they didn't do laundry). So, since the shorter guy seems to be straight (or at least not having "curious" glances), I assume the taller one is straight, as well. However, they talk very little while on the bus, which is odd (I guess I'm pretty talkative with my friends).

Sadly, I'll be starting classes next week, so I might miss the tall guy more often. I don't even want to think that maybe he is an exchange student and will be gone soon.

 

Who's there? I'm not just talking to myself?! Thank you for the kind (and colorful) words.

We talked!

So, I just want to say I have some really important news. Today, I saw the hot German guys on the bus, and the tall guy spoke a little German. I spent almost half the trip tortuously thinking about making the first move. Sometimes I would look down straight in front of me, and I could tell through the side of my eyes at least the tall one was sometimes watching. I think he has slight strabismus (the eyes are very slightly unfocused; or he could be trying to extend his peripheral vision...), but that actually makes him more adorable. Well, eventually I couldn't take it any more and blurted out "Excuse me, are you speaking German?" And then all the tension blew away. I tried to explain that I like guessing languages from accents (and honestly I do; I even identified a woman who turned out to be Belgian by her Dutch-like accent).

Unsurprisingly, it was the tall guy who talked to me; though I was so excited I didn't talk as much as I wanted. I didn't even ask their names. :eusa_doh: The short guy said little and wasn't at all interested in continuing the conversation. He seems to be aloof, probably why he hardly talks to the tall one. At one point the tall one couldn't understand what I was asking (I have a bad habit of convoluted grammar/speech, as you can tell by this thread), and the short guy translated it for him (so he was definitely following along :icon_bigg ).

At one point, I showed my cards a little too well by asking why they sat at the lunch tables outside my building (which would indicate I had seen and remembered them there). It turns out they work at the building my own lab had been in before we moved to the current [new] one. However, I was sad to learn that they're here for only 6 months. :tears: When I was leaving, the tall one said "Have a nice day" (the other guy said nothing) and I felt very happy.

I was so desperate that I had recently posted a Craigslist "missed connections" ad, but they may not even know what Craigslist is, much less follow the personals sections (I hardly do as well because I'm so busy with work). In any case, now I have lots of things to ask them, so things are looking good.