Nature and nurture and why it’s a stupid debate

Just Jess · Sep 7, 2013

So I read some article today, interesting part quoted

Femenist Challenging Transphobia said:

What troubles me is when people turn their own experience of gender into theory they apply to others, without taking into account their own subjectivity. Often, folks who experience themselves as monogender tend to follow “nature” theories whereas more androgynous or genderqueer people tend to think of gender as less real and innate, more fluid – this would make sense for people who don’t have a profound inner sense of gender, but they are disregarding those who do, by muddling people’s genuine sense of who they are with something that has merely been enforced by society. It would be like someone who has never been in love telling the rest of the world love does not exist, or someone who has been hurt by love saying it should not exist.

So some genderqueer or agender people assume theirs is the “real” experience and monogender people are somehow deluded; for them, gender cannot be real because they don’t experience it as real themselves. Monogender people are equally defensive of their own perspective, and can sometimes dismiss or cut across genderqueer or non-binary experiences, or say that explorations of social construction are deliberately eradicating of trans* narratives.
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So I was wondering if any of you have experienced any of this.

I was talking to a genderqueer person not too long ago, about how hard it is to get help from a community that's set up to deal with more traditional narratives like my own. Or like someone who identifies as their birth gender but feel a need to present as something else, how they feel like they're constantly being compared to people like me or worse, are being told things like "at least you aren't trans". I mean WTF, some of these people have had their lives turned upside down just like my own. They know what the closet and the fear are like. They've been there.

I also remember my own feelings when talking to some people that claim none of this is real. I don't think they understand quite how much that hurts, and I know I'm usually too polite to let it show. People get so defensive of their ideas on gender too, and me if I share my experiences. And I wouldn't argue anyway, because all I've really got is experiences. Sure I can say "look we know for a scientific fact hormones do this that and the other thing", but everything real is mostly just stuff I experience directly.

My personal feelings on nature and nurture, are nature isn't really done with us for a few years after we're born. I look at people like clay tablets. There's stuff about us that, once it's there, it's there forever. But I think we do some of our most important baking and drying after we're born. So I don't really think during that time there's a real important difference between nature and nurture. I think we're usually a good 3 or 4 years old before that difference even exists.

Anyway just wanted to hear what you all thought about this.

Emulator · Sep 7, 2013

cassie29 said: ↑

My personal feelings on nature and nurture, are nature isn't really done with us for a few years after we're born. I look at people like clay tablets. There's stuff about us that, once it's there, it's there forever. But I think we do some of our most important baking and drying after we're born. So I don't really think during that time there's a real important difference between nature and nurture. I think we're usually a good 3 or 4 years old before that difference even exists.
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*applause* Well said.

The article is rather fallacious. Sure, different people perceive gender differently, but understanding others' views also goes with that. We don't operate like robots, just taking things for their material value, but when we see others refer to themselves as a certain gender, we know that they have chosen it for a reason.
To me, though, gender is just a word and people could fall anywhere on the scale. I don't follow strictly how others dictate I should behave, because there isn't even a definition for their labels. If they wish to limit their view, so be it. While those who only believe in two genders and traditional roles are mono-gendered, not all who are mono-gendered only know two genders.
Mostly the perceptions of gender by different people are from what they have experienced, and they use scientific evidence to back it up - finding answers to their questions, then imposing it on others. They get defensive about it too. If we can't convince them, then the best thing is leave them, they may be more accepting later on. They're dynamic after all.

So there's my views, but it's just one person's opinion.

Ettina · Sep 10, 2013

I don't think it really matters if it's nature or nurture. What matters is what's most effective at helping the person live a happy life.

A lot of people assume nature can't be changed and nurture can - well, as a psychology student with an interest in genetics, I can tell you it doesn't always work out that way.

Some 'nurture' traits end up being extremely hard, if not impossible, to change. For example, if you're blind since infancy, and then surgery fixes your vision as an adult, you won't be able to make sense of what you see. That part of your brain just didn't develop.

Meanwhile, some 'nature' things can be readily changed. For example, most people use the corpus callosum to communicate between brain hemispheres, and an adult who gets their corpus callosum severed will essentially have two separate streams of consciousness (split-brain syndrome - it's quite dramatic). However, if a kid is born without a corpus callosum (often due to a genetic mutation), very often it'll have no effect, or only a very subtle one. The two hemispheres will actually grow together to close the gap. There are actually no reported cases of congenital absence of the corpus callosum causing the split-brain syndrome.

So whether your sexual orientation or gender identity is due to nature, nurture or a bit of both is irrelevant. What matters is whether it can be changed and whether it should be changed, and the nature/nurture question actually tells you absolutely nothing about either issue.

Nature and nurture and why it’s a stupid debate

Just Jess
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Nature and nurture and why it’s a stupid debate

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