First if the terms are offensive I apologise but they are the only terms I know. Prefered terms? Anyway, I went to the gay bar this weekend for the first time and saw a couple people there (but didn't talk to either). One I'm 99% sure was a trans-guy cause he was there with his gf. And while people watching I saw (what I found to be an amusing) exchange between the two of them when she needed him to hold her purse where she could go to th restroom. The initial exchange was clearly him arguing 'no take it with you' but she slipped it on his arm and went to walk off. The look on his face was as if you just snatched away a cis-guys penis. But the part I found amusing was he did everything he could to let anybody who saw him with it know it was her purse and when she returned he got in trouble because he was sitting on it (outta site outta mind I guess). The other person appeared very similar except they were wearing a T-shirt instead of a dress shirt and was alone (worked there). ---------- Post added 22nd Sep 2013 at 08:11 AM ---------- I have read posts here from a trans-guy who hates it when people see his chest and then use female pronouns. Would a butch lesbian be just as offended if I used male pronouns? How do I approach someone that I'm not sure which they are w/o offending them?
When in doubt, ask. Most--can't speak for everyone--transgender people prefer when people ask rather than assume incorrectly.
Yeah I agree with Hot Pink. Just ask what pronouns they prefer. Or if you don't want to do that (because even I wouldn't really want to approach people with that question) just listen to parts of their conversation and see if you can pick up anything. I ran into a similar problem last week where I met a friend's friend who I'm 99.9% is a MtF. They used female pronouns with her so I did the same, but she'd also throw out hints that she was transgender without actually saying it. So there are ways to figure it out without actually snooping.
I'm a transguy and I would prefer male pronouns. I don't like to be called Maa'm, she, her etc. I hate it. >_< When it comes to my ex gf, I would always like to hold and carry her things like her bag or purse. I don't care if they will think it's mine. Just being a gentleman..
I understand that trans-guys prefer male pronouns. My question (god I hate stereotypes but only way I know to explain here) both tend to wear baggy jeans (hides curves there). Both tend to squish 'upstairs' at least to some degree. Both tend to wear shirts that are more typical of a male. And both tend to have a hairstyle more similar to guys. It is almost like trying to tell a straight metrosexual from a gay guy. I was wandering if there was a graceful way of doing so. Say I saw you at a gay bar and started using female pronouns. If you were to correct me about the best I would be able to come up with would be something like 'Excuse me sir I must have had a few to many cause my vision is off' ---------- Post added 22nd Sep 2013 at 09:43 PM ---------- Even to me that sounds tactless but it's about all I got. Is there a better way? BTW: If you were to correct me I would do my level best to remember to use male pronouns.
Try avoiding using pronouns at first. Just say "Excuse me...yada yada.." I've been in that situation before and I don't like to assume everytime. Last time I talked with a lesbian(not so sure if she's on the fem side or going to the butch side)..so I didn't use any pronouns at all. LOL I don't know if there's a better way. >_< Sorry for my english. Not my primary language.
Most people assume I'm a butch lesbian, until I make out with a guy in their presence. Then they assume I'm a butch straight girl - which is an unusual combination for sure - or just "really hipster" (?). I don't take offence to the question at all. I find it really hard to tell the difference myself. They're nearly identical on so many levels, from the masculine clothes to the marked fondness for cats (at least, me and every transguy I've stumbled upon are into cats). I've noticed a few typical differences between the two. - While they tend to wear the same shorts, most butch lesbians I've come across shave their legs. Most transdudes do not. - Some transdudes shave their faces. Butch lesbians tend to have peach fuzz. - Butch lesbians are often seen on the arms of other lesbians. Some transguys are also on the arms of individuals of the female persuasion, hence the confusion. Others are sometimes noted to be staring blankly into a 5th of vodka, occasionally shooting jealous glances at gay men and silently wishing they were hotter. In all seriousness though, there's not much in the way of physical cues to go by. So watch for conversational cues. How do other people refer to the person in question? And when in doubt, just stay neutral. I'd rather be approached with neutral pronouns than be misgendered. I never know how to correct someone when they're wrong.
The problem I have with being gender neutral was that my parents knocked 'sir' and "ma'am" into my head (quite literally) as a child. Them) Did you do that? me) yes them) *smacks back of my head* Yes what? me) Yes sir/ma'am. them) thats better Now when I'm out in public and someone refills my glass it's always 'thank you sir/ma'am' because just 'thank you' or 'thanks' weren't allowed. The last two have been beat into my head as rude. The other night I thought of asking for a name but figured with my luck I'd get something like 'Andy'.
All you really have to do with the purse is hold it awkwardly away from your body and look slightly embarrassed. No need to sit on it.
In casual conversation of course it was just 'momma' and 'daddy', but when addressing them formaly like when I got in trouble you damn right it was 'sir' and "ma'am" (sounds like the m-a-m in mamogram). To this day if for some reason I forget a 'sir' or "ma'am" when thanking a waitress for filling my drink (or worse not say 'thank you' at all) I can still feel them pop me in the back of my head and ask 'What do you say?'. Today they may consider (literally) beating manners into you kids as child abuse. But in the south in the early 80s it was practicality expected.
Ask. It's the best thing you can do. When I'm asked I make sure that the other person does not feel uncomfortable asking me. If the person responds angrily, it's not your fault. You asked something that makes you awkward just because you didn't want to insult them. They should be smiling that you didn't just make an assumption about them.
