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Non-Binary Pronouns

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by JustAnotherSoul, Sep 22, 2013.

  1. JustAnotherSoul

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    What are your experiences or thoughts on gender neutral pronouns (or not using pronouns)? I'm interested in meeting more people who use them/might want to use them.

    For me, I've been using they/them for the last three weeks as I just started college. I attend a small women's college in Massachusetts, so it's very liberal and we have a large trans* community. Still, outside of my queer friends, people really struggle with them. They usually show a lot of interest and ask really great questions when I introduce myself, but then they forget and it's back to she. It's pretty rough, and I'm looking for a way to make progress on that.
     
  2. The_Poets

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    Im not trans, but I have always had something against discriminating by gender.
     
  3. Saint Otaku

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    While I like the idea of gender-neutral pronouns, the English language isn't very merciful and offers very little selection. Sure, one can use "they" or "them;" I personally dislike the style of such words used this way, I dislike how they sound and read. I suppose it's because such pronouns are typically plural, but often used as singular to avoid the dehumanizing neutral pronoun "it." Likewise, I believe decent writing and speech needs a good balance of nouns and pronouns, to allow the words to flow better.
     
  4. JustAnotherSoul

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    My mom was an English major and is an editor and technical writer and she thinks this way too. We've agreed that she can use xe/xir for me if she wants to instead of my singular they. I actually picked they/them because I thought it might be easier for people to use (since it's so common in slang anyway), but I think it's a toss-up. There are definitely other options out there though. Did you know that that in Baltimore there is apparently a youth movement for the slang pronoun of yo? "That clown is crazy! Yo just jumped off a trapeze!" One way that I view they/them though, is that why shouldn't it be like you? We use you for singular and plural, subjective and objective. I just view they like that.
     
  5. Oddish

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    While I primarily go by male pronouns (since I came out as a transman originally, and it would be difficult to have my family/friends adapt to new pronouns again if I mentioned being genderqueer), I prefer neutral, most of the time. At least everyone at my trans* group makes sure to refer to me by them, or by male pronouns.

    I'm almost afraid to ask others to refer to me by them as well, considering that most people don't understand non-binary identities and why I prefer going by non-binary pronouns. So, I mainly just stick with male ones. Maybe once I feel confident enough, I'll start asking my family and some friends to use neutral pronouns, but for the time being.. it would be far too confusing.

    I mean, I'm fortunate that the English language offers neutral pronouns because in my dad's language (Spanish) there are no gender-neutral inclusive pronouns or titles, and it's practically impossible to construct a gender-neutral sentence. That, I'm pretty thankful for, even if "they/them" comes across as a bit inflexible and awkward in the context of English language when referring to just one person. I do like ze/hir as well, but even I find myself a bit tongue-tied when it comes to those pronouns, but respect and use them with other non-binary identifying people.
     
  6. Saint Otaku

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    Yeah, "they" can totally be used as a singular pronoun. It's far better than "it" and far more polite, I just -- in my mind -- think it's ugly from a literary perspective compared to the gendered pronouns.

    I'm not sure how to feel about these "coined pronoun" movements, as I believe language needs to evolve into its natural course, so it sounds natural to the mind, but I dunno!

    Perhaps the genderqueer community could find a way to integrate neutral pronouns from other languages into english -- which is already a hodgepodge -- to allow more diversity and choice. I could say "Ore am a man!" with a rose in my mouth and a rapier in one hand hand alcohol in the other, for those who understand a bit of Japanese. ^.^
     
  7. JustAnotherSoul

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    I know, I honestly don't know what I'll do if I still feel like I do now when I have to leave college and go out into the real world. Right now, both he and she make me really, really uncomfortable. But at the same time, I haven't heard of a single person successfully using gender neutral pronouns in xir interactions with the general population. The non-binary bloggers I know of usually use they or ze or something else when people are knowledgable enough to ask, and she or he when they aren't, and I just can't imagine doing that and being okay with it.

    And Spanish is awful! Again, choosing doesn't work for me. My current professor suggested mixing it up when talking about myself (sometimes as masculine and sometimes as feminine), but it still doesn't fit quite right.

    That's great! I love it :slight_smile: Fun fact, ze or xe came from the abbreviation s/he, according to my mother in the publishing industry. She told me the story of how they starting using s/he or (s)he instead of writing she/he or instead of using he as the default gender. Mostly things were written and meant to be read silently, but there still needed to be a pronunciation. They settled on the sound we associate with ze or xe today! It's sort of like Latin@, which I've heard can be pronounced as an "ow" sound, so La-teen-ow". Maybe that'll become a thing in Spanish!
     
  8. Saint Otaku

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    Oh my gosh! I completely forgot about "one!" And I use that more often than "you." Used with versatility, "one" or "that one" sounds both appealing -- if a bit formal -- and is gender-neutral.

    Still, English needs more pronouns... :/
     
  9. Just Jess

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    So the most popular ones since the early days of the internet have been,

    singular they,

    sie/hir/hir/hirs/hirself, and

    zie/zir/zir/zirs/zirself

    My personal favorite set is called the "Spivak pronouns". But that name kind of blows, since it's named after the guy that made them popular Michael Spivak (who if you are a computer or a sciences person was a LaTeX guy), and they were invented by a woman named Christine M. Elverson. She came up with them to win a contest for transgender pronouns in the '70s and they are,

    ey/e/em/eir

    Basically drop the first two letters off "they, them" etc. I think they sound the easiest on an English speaker's ears, "I gave 'em the last donut and 'ey said 'thanks' and let me have 'eir spot in line for coffee"

    But I think by and large nothing's gonna beat singular they. Everyone just does it already.
     
  10. utsuratsura

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    I personally use They/Them pronouns, as I currently identify as gender-fluid. But more recently I've decided I'm also okay with male pronouns. But with my experience with gender neutral pronouns, its that I've found that a lot of people aren't okay with using them and think that they're "grammatically incorrect".
     
  11. Oddish

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    I think it's terrible that nonbinary identities aren't as prominent in society nor are our pronouns taken seriously, because everyone (well, most of the population) expects every person to fit in a binary, and only see two genders. Unfortunately, neither have I. Fortunately, I can balance between male and neutral pronouns just fine, while I'd definitely prefer the latter, but it would be unrealistic of me for everyone to adapt and refer to me by gender neutral pronouns all of the time.

    In a lot of Latin@ trans* spaces, we've adopted the "@" for the sake of gender neutrality, almost a blend of both Latina/latino for the sake of androgyny/genderqueer identity, as well as inclusion for non-binary folks. It seems to be adapting fairly quickly, which I'm really happy about. Now, if there were only a way to do the same with Spanish pronouns, and the dreaded feminine/masculine verbs and nouns...
     
  12. All I know is I prefer subject-verb agreement.
     
  13. artiewhat

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    I like xe/xem/xyr a lot for just general usage but people use the pronoun hen for me as a sort of pronoun of endearment.