Could someone help me understand the difference between trans* and ideas like butch?

Re: Could someone help me understand the difference between trans* and ideas like but

" how does this relate to gay gender identities like butch and boi?"

It doesn't, it's a completely different thing. So, if you're a girl who happens to like wearing masculine clothes, someone might call you 'butch' or a tomboy, but that's essentially it, you are a girl wearing clothing that isn't girly.

Now if someone is trans, then it's different, because that person is a guy. They aren't a girl wearing guys clothes, they are a guy wearing guys clothes. They just have the wrong parts on their body!

 

Re: Could someone help me understand the difference between trans* and ideas like but

"...but now I am getting a bit more educated I am beginning to understand more what is meant by gender not being binary. Can I just check what people think about something, others views? I had thought that the definition of trans* meant that folk felt some sort of disconnect or discomfort with their physical selves; this might not be all the time and might fluctuate in strength."

Trans women and trans men in most cases (unless they are also GenderQueer) would infact be binary because they consider themselves as mostly male or female.

For non-binary trans* folk they can be completely comfortable with their body and still feel that their gender (they were given from birth) is different from what they have been told their whole life.

"how does this relate to gay gender identities like butch and boi?"

ElliaOtaku's response!

 

Re: Could someone help me understand the difference between trans* and ideas like but

but a girl wanting/wearing boy's clothes wouldn't somehow mean that she wants to be a boy?
i understand that being a boy and wanting to be one is different but i think there's some relation between those terms :/

 

Re: Could someone help me understand the difference between trans* and ideas like but

Not really, a boy could wear a dress, have long hair, and wear make-up + nail polish everyday and still identify as 100% male.

 

Re: Could someone help me understand the difference between trans* and ideas like but

"but a girl wanting/wearing boy's clothes wouldn't somehow mean that she wants to be a boy?"

Have you ever worn trousers? Perhaps a hooded sweatshirt? Jeans? Trainers? All of those were considered to be men's clothes at one stage, even if they are more unisex now.

 

Re: Could someone help me understand the difference between trans* and ideas like but

Truth be told, there is a lot of overlap. Kings and queens, and transsexuals, really do have a lot in common, often more than we'll admit, although there are a lot of differences as well. If you look at gender like a scale, I'm sure a lot of feminine men and masculine women aren't quite on one end of the scale or the other completely.

The big difference is people's needs. I personally have a part of me that is very distraught over the way my body becomes slowly more masculine. Part of me knows this is wrong, and what's causing it, and wants me to fix it, the same way you know better than to jump off a cliff or that a burner on the stove is going to be hot before you touch it. Part of me knows I should be a girl.

It's caused me a lot of heartache. It's prevented me from having a normal sexual relationship with the woman I love. It meant me repressing a lot of my personality for a long time. It's something I was taught to be ashamed of, and that guilt and shame has almost got the better of me a few times. When the real me can shine through, I am a lot more competent and confident. I'm much more outgoing. I don't feel like there is a lot to keep track of and hide all the time.

There are other trans people with stories similar to mine, and different from mine. Nothing is really cut and dry. My story isn't the trans story, my story is my story. I think trying to come up with "the trans story" is a really terrible thing to do. It used to be that my story couldn't be "the trans story" for instance because I'm gay. That's the danger; people like me get told we aren't real women because we don't like men. Once upon a time, "the trans story" involved us proving we were 1950s submissive stereotypes in order to get any kind of help. Transition should be about honesty and authenticity, but back then it was anything but.

And I never say "just" a crossdresser either. A lot of people, for instance, that just feel like they need to dress and act like a woman, but maybe don't feel the same way about getting rid of what's making testosterone as I do, will go through just as much heartache if they tell their girlfriend or wife about it. Their pain isn't any less just because we have a slightly different story behind it.

So I think it's more helpful, instead of focusing on the differences between us - because we are really, really diverse underneath the T in LGBT - I think it's better to focus on what we need in order to function. Some of us, that means having a stage persona and being glitzy and glamorous on the weekend. Me, it means navigating transition so I can live my life as a woman, albeit a lot less fabulous a woman. I've found I'm a much more sociable person and a much more effective engineer, and I'm capable of having a more honest and fulfilling relationship with another person this way. Some of us, it might mean a little bit of bedroom kink. Some of us, it might mean socially transitioning, but keeping all their parts, and some of us, the exact opposite, since it's the parts that bother them but they can function at their job in their assigned gender role just fine.

That's where I draw the line. A transsexual, in my opinion, is someone that needs to transition, for whatever reason, and whatever transition means to them. Maybe they can't, and maybe their transition isn't going to be the "traditional" kind. Transsexuals have existed for millenia; a lot of us just found more crude ways to take care of our problems, and a lot of us sadly didn't. To me, my being trans is just a birth defect we've figured out how to correct. Other people are who they are, and can figure out what they need on their own.

And hopefully society will be open minded enough to accommodate everyone

 

Re: Could someone help me understand the difference between trans* and ideas like but

I used to think that one of the differences between a butch and trans was that although both felt better in men's clothes, a trans person would never felt OK naked.
But I am not sure anymore. Are there trans people here who are perfectly OK with their bodies?
I understand when someone is afraid of transition and doesn't make any changes because of that. But being trans and being OK with the "wrong" body is a bit confusing for me.

 

Re: Could someone help me understand the difference between trans* and ideas like but

This was a response to nick for some reason it quoted the wrong thing or just didnt quote his
Some prefer to stay pre everything some dont get bodily dysphoria for them it could just be socially seen and treated as they gender they are not.

 

Re: Could someone help me understand the difference between trans* and ideas like but

Honestly, I never feel ok naked. Never have. I like that it's comfortable, but if I look down it is the worst. Some days the dysphoria isn't so bad, but there's just so much disconnect with my body over all...it's complicated for sure.

 

Re: Could someone help me understand the difference between trans* and ideas like but

Well, there's our bodies, and then there's the parts of our bodies no one sees.

I've met some people going the MtF direction that were scared they'd lose sensation, or generally felt female but actually liked the darn thing when they were having sex, kind of the opposite situation from the people where sex is the only time they have cross-gender feelings. And they were comfortable trying to explain the situation to future romantic partners.

Honestly I can't really understand like put myself in their shoes understand people like that, but I can understand as far as looking at it from the outside understand. I mean it is far from the only motivator, but being honest not being able to have sex the way a man does with a woman was one of the bigger reasons for me starting down this path.

So yeah it seems weird for me too, why would you want to be binary but still keep a body part from the other sex if you didn't have to. But I've also dealt with a ton of "well if x is true then why are you transitioning" and "well if you just did y then you would be able to stay the way you are" "advice" from people in my personal life, so I don't wanna turn around and give it to someone in that situation just because they aren't like me.

And since that much makes enough sense on the outside, I can kind of extrapolate, to someone feeling that way about everything they can keep covered up most of the time or make look the way they want with special clothes. That's not me, but there's plenty of room in my world for someone like that.

 

Re: Could someone help me understand the difference between trans* and ideas like but

Well, they would be trans I guess. If you're having sex with a guy and you feel really strongly that at that moment you are female, then that's pretty much it...some may argue that it's just a way of avoiding labelling yourself as 'gay' but frankly I fail to see how being labelled as trans is an improvement there, so those arguments don't hold much water!

 

Re: Could someone help me understand the difference between trans* and ideas like but

Might think of it this way to help:

I was talking with my group advisor, who's a butch lesbian. We both dress like dudes. She was asking me why I couldn't just be happy with dressing as a guy.

I asked her: how do you feel when someone accidentally refers to you as a "he" or "him?" She said it made her furious and really upset and angry. I said that's how I feel when people refer to me as "she" and "her."

I think some transpeople aren't okay with their bodies, while some are. I think also part of fighting dysphoria is to find things we do like about our bodies. Yeah, the sight of my chest makes me sick, but I'm a collegiate runner and I have some serious leg muscles, which I like on me. I like how my height is decent. A solid 5' 9" for a guy isn't too bad. I have pretty big hands for someone biologically female, and my feet are big enough I can find guys shoes to fit. I get upset about my hips, but I realize they look bigger to me than they do to everyone else and I feel lucky that I have a somewhat lanky runner's body.

I know that's off-topic, but I hope it at least give some insight to the differences between transguys and butch lesbians.