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Male/Female/Me.

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Axxel, Apr 4, 2014.

  1. Axxel

    Axxel Guest

    I should start off by saying that when I'm completely on my own I don't care what I am physically. I'm comfortable with the body I have and I consider it to be the thing that gets me from A to B and helps me to interact with other people. I think of my body as my possession rather than my identity. If I had been born biologically male or a combination of male and female I would also be fine with it.

    Following this logic I similarly don't care what kind of expectations there are because my sex is female. I have a wide range of hobbies which varies from working on cars and boxing to watching fluffy anime and collecting stuffed animals. Socially I'm very fluid and am as maternal and caring as I am snarky and prankster-ish. I have friends of both sexes and blend in well in situations of only men, only women or a mixture. I do typically have better friendships with men, but if a man and a woman had the same personality then I'd be friends with them equally.

    My gender still isn't very clear but I'm contented with who I am. I still dress femininely to conform but I've begun to take steps towards dressing to please myself instead. Some days I like my shirts, ties and waistcoats, others I like my pin-up dresses. Some days I just want to watch a film and cuddle up in a blanket with my cat and others I'm the happiest at my local cheering on the racing and having a pint.

    Generally, I'm happy with this. Here's the kicker - other people.

    It annoys me when people treat me in the stereotypical way women are treated and make a point of using female names to define me even when I am in non-gendered or masculine clothing. I despise being called "Woman, love, lady, lass' when unnecessary. I don't mind female pronouns when they're imperative to the conversation (ie "Where did Alex go?" "She went to the bathroom") but when it's just being added for nothing ("Here's your drink, love" I feel strangely frustrated. Curiously I do not feel the same way when refereed to as "dude, man, bro" and this may be because I use those terms myself for both men and women after my brief surfer phase.

    I like it the best of all when people simply don't reference my sex and just talk to me as a person. I feel like no matter who I talk too there's always some kind of thought in their head about my sex. There's always some kind of judgement there and because of my face and body I feel like I'm always treated like a young girl. I have the kind of face that needs a lot of time and patience to made into a man's.

    Then there's my sexuality. I sincerely wish I could be sexually attracted to both sexes, as I'm aware my own discrimination make me a complete hypocrite, however I only feel sexual desire to those who identify as male. I'm the most physically attracted to men who are feminine in appearance. However, I struggle, because of this whole concept of the man being the strong protector-provider thing. I look every inch the fluttering submissive sort and that is how I end up being treated, despite my instance upon equality in the relationship.

    One of my biggest hopes it to someday meet someone who considers me their partner rather than 'girlfriend' or 'boyfriend'.

    I say that I'm bi-gender at the moment because it seems to sum up the fact that I have both masculine and feminine qualities, however, when I think of either label I'm not sure I fit into them quite right. I do prefer to be treated like a male and it makes me really happy to just hang out with my male friends and be treated as their equal. At the same time, I like hanging out with my female friends too, I just feel like we're different somehow (at least with the majority, individuals vary of course).

    I don't know. I wouldn't even bother with these labels, but I need something to tell people when they ask why calling me 'woman' winds me up so much, or when yet another person assumes I'm sexually attracted to women because of my personality (how does that even work? Last time I checked, sexual orientation isn't dependent on gendered behaviour.)

    I suppose the point of this thread it to A) see if there's anyone else out there that feels this way, B) what you think the appropriate term for it would be and C) if this is important enough to talk to people about or fairly inconsequential.

    Thanks for making it this far and apologies for the essay! :icon_wink
     
    #1 Axxel, Apr 4, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2014
  2. Ash93

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    What about they/them pronouns? Those don't reference gender, so would you be alright using them?
     
  3. Miss Emma

    Miss Emma Guest

    You sound an awful lot like me in reverse. Only I'm married to a cis woman for 8 years now and have 4 children. I came out trans to her and very near lost my marriage over it. She and I have come to an understanding of one another, and I of my own unique situation being genderqueer (or non binary, or whatever) and how that doesn't have to imply that I am dysphoric enough to need to transition. For me, it turns out, social transition is enough. I prefer feminine or neutral pronouns, but for some reason, I'm not totally offended at being referenced as male/masculine.

    That's my two cents-worth.

    Emma
     
  4. Axxel

    Axxel Guest

    Good idea Ash. I think the only problem I'd have with that is the plurality that it means to most people. I don't want to give the impression that my male and female identities are different people since they're both just me.

    Really interesting to hear from somebody with a similar experience Miss Emma. I'm glad you and your wife came to an understanding and that you can live happily with the compromise. The idea of social transition is interesting - I think I want a modified version of that, where people are less hung up on this concept of my physical sex. It's really awesome to hear your take on the pronouns - they're such a tricky technical detail in all this.
     
  5. Axxel

    Axxel Guest

    So, in the space of a week I've had one person recognize me as bi-gender without me telling them, someone else call me 'Sir' in a genuine and serious way and somebody refer to me as 'that guy over there'. This has never happened before and I'm as excited as the Flanders's kids at imaginary Christmas.
     
  6. twizt

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    Why is it that you feel excitement for masculine pronouns/forms of address and insulted by feminine pronouns/forms of address? I am just curious why the different reactions when you are bi-gender.

    I can relate to this. I think for me personally it has something to do with the lack of equality and respect in society. If someone calls me sir, guy, dude, bro, etc. I feel like I have just gotten a kind of at-a-boy pat on the back. Whereas with feminine terms directed towards myself they honestly make me cringe. Which becomes even more complex considering I find femininity in others extremely appealing regardless of sex or gender identity.
     
  7. Axxel

    Axxel Guest

    It's not so much insulted at being identified as female as much as I've only just begun to recognize myself as bi-gender. I literally began to label myself about a month ago: before then I knew something was 'different' but I was trying my hardest not to recognize what it might be. I've been living so long as only female that any form of recognition for my male side makes me excited and happy, like it's not all just in my head. I'm content with my physical sex but I've always disliked being pinned down by it since my mental gender very rarely lines up with the expectations associated with my physical existence.

    It's partly about just being myself too. I've been so stringent about adhering to female gendered roles and types in the past that I've quite literally denied myself hobbies and modes of dress just so that I can sleep next to someone else at night. I've let people push me into this mother hen, glamorous, dainty role when sometimes I just want a suit rather than the scarlet dress. I actually felt like I was cross dressing for quite a while when I used to wear short skirts and all the rest of it. I don't feel like that any more - I just feel like me now - but I have to say that I've never dared to hope people would accept me so readily in my male clothes and presentation before.

    I would say that I have more masculine leaning days, interestingly. Full on male and full on female days are less common. Recently I've been experiencing quite a lovely feeling of 'otherness' which doesn't quite fit either gender.

    That might be a part of it for me too. I think I just don't associate with the common attitudes towards femininity here. I liken it to someone calling me an alien. It's not like I think aliens are bad things; I'm just not one, and it's confusing and frustrating that nobody is seeing that I'm a human. It's especially weird being in a group of aliens who talk to you in their language because they think they're one of them, and sometimes you can understand the language and you realize you can morph into one occasionally. Then you realize it's your true form but you actually just prefer the human form and then it all gets messy and weird.

    I think, had I been given a choice of physical sex at birth, I would have chosen male. However, being female in sex is all I've ever known and I've grown very comfortable with it. I also have female interests and tendencies which wouldn't sit quite right with the expectations of a man. That's why I went with bi gender - although, one of my friends has said lovingly that I should just pick 'ball of fur from outerspace' and stick with it.
     
    #7 Axxel, Apr 16, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2014
  8. tobeanne

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    I think you're very lucky to be comfortable with yourself whether you're 'socially' masculine or feminine. And today I think a woman with a 'masculine' hobby is more accepted than in the past, or maybe that's just bias on my part. Although there are now 'househusbands' and such, I think a male engaged in 'socially' feminine pursuits will have a label slapped on him very quickly. Have you been labeled when you're wearing men's clothing? Oh, and I've always liked being called 'sweetie.'
     
  9. twizt

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    Ah that makes sense. Having that recognition is a form of acceptance which always feels good I think.

    The alien analogy is priceless lol. I might have to steal it and use it some time if that's alright? My entire life people have always called me an astronaut because I may be technically there, but there's always a distance - "insulated in my space suit" from "earthlings" as I study them for dissection is what they say haha.
     
  10. Minnie

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    For A, I'm with you there, except I think I've been wearing female clothes for old times' sake (until recently... but never mind me). For B, there are lots of different ways to address people. Titles, for example, include Mux - you should check it out on Wikipedia :slight_smile: Methinks "they" would be best as it is gender neutral and thus could mean either male or female. Pronouns are a bit of a b**ch when you've all these terms like "bigender" and "androgyne", but that's the English language I'm afraid! And for C, if it's bothering you, of course it's worth talking to people about it.