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Autogynephilia

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by silly string, Apr 6, 2014.

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  1. silly string

    silly string
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    Hear me out, as I know this isn't a term well received in the trans* community. If you don't know what autogynephilia I will cite it as: "the propensity to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of oneself as female." It's a term that's typically associated with mental illness, and attempts to categorize transsexuals, question their motives etc. Now I in no way endorse the "theory" of autogynephilia, transsexualism is definitely not a mental illness that can simply be cured. But the reason for this post is not really to debate the validity of the theory, since I think most of us could easily come to a consensus.

    Rather, I want to discuss the motives and autogynephilia itself, as obviously it is a term that is still applicable in the very literal sense, and consequently, I would describe my self as an autogynephile. I do think of myself as trans*, but there becomes a point where you need to explain yourself. A therapist writing the recommendation for HRT wants to see you make the right life decisions, and something like autogynephilia is a major red flag. But why is that? Sexual satisfaction is something that I would think is important to a lot of people. If transitioning to become a women is the answer, then why wouldn't I do it? Is it selfish? Of course, and I hopefully don't offend anyone in saying this, but all transitions are essentially selfish. We sacrifice things such as a relationships to put ourselves in a better physical and mental state. Now for those experiencing large amounts of dysphoria and pain, calling them selfish seems rather unwarranted, especially when people like autogynephiles exist. I'm just wondering whether people out there think autogynephilia itself is a good enough reason to go through with a transition.

    I should mention that it's not the sole reason I would go through with a transition. Barring sexual endeavors, etc., I do experience relative discomfort with my male self. Nothing to a highly dysphoric degree, but I would much rather have been born a woman physically, and see no problems with shedding my current physical identity for a better one. It's just that, when approaching things like this where you must be absolutely certain, and everyone around you must be absolutely convinced, being objective means admitting that autogynephilia is a very real factor in all of this. Would I survive taking no further action? Sure, I suppose so. But I'd be much happier, sexually, mentally, etc., if I were to go through with a transition; just not sure whether that's convincing enough for everyone else, or whether the stigma of perversion will prevent me from living my life to the fullest.

    Thanks for the taking the time to read.
     
    #1 silly string, Apr 6, 2014
  2. Just Jess

    Just Jess
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    Hi Silly String,

    My own thoughts on the subject are here. http://emptyclosets.com/forum/gender-identity-expression/129154-i-am-autoandrophile-anyone-else.html .

    I really would like to respond directly to something you said though,

    This just is not the case and has not been for decades. "Red flags" as you put them or "counterindications" as doctors put it are these:

    * not everyone can take hormones due to medical conditions
    * there are some psychiatric conditions such as borderline personality disorder that hormones can make worse
    * steps in transition have made a person feel worse and not better

    There are of course other possibilities, but you get the idea. It's not "a trans person has to be this, that, and the other thing". It's "we know about this, that, and the other thing that can prevent a trans person from being happy". Doctors aren't holding a person up to an ideal any more. A person can be whoever they are. Doctors just make sure that they're helping responsibly now.

    The fact is, a lot of trans people are aroused by thinking about themselves as their target sex. It's true that people used to feel like they had to hid this and other things about themselves when we started trying to organize trans care in the 70s. There were a lot of problems with the way things were done, that the World Professional Association for Transgender Health has addressed honestly and with the help of the community and many doctors.

    Being trans is also a lot less of a package deal. The medical part is only there to help people overcome handicaps preventing them from living life with all the advantages a non-trans person has. The wrong hormones, for instance, have been shown to cause symptoms like suicidal ideation. And someone that is mostly transitioned has a serious disadvantage if they still have their birth genitals in many situations such as locker rooms, bathrooms, sexual relations with other people, etc.

    But if a person is trans, in the sense that being a member of their target sex very much works better for them, but they don't have one or two handicaps in common with another trans person, the fact is modern medicine is a LOT better at handling that kind of situation than you are making it out.

    The fact is, I do not have to fake an attraction to men - and risk leaving one unfair relationship with someone I truly love in a heart-wrenching and devastating break-up only to destine myself to enter the exact same situation because otherwise I'm not "trans enough" - in order to get medical help. That ended when what you brought up ended. I got "walking papers" for hormones from a therapist I told flat out I was sexually aroused by being a member of my target sex.

    I am really sorry if I have an angry tone, you totally do not deserve that and I'm really glad you are opening up discussion. It's just that I feel very, very strongly about not holding trans people up to a higher standard of mental health than other people, and your mentioning this "red flag" got my hackles up a little, because it comes from an era where that is exactly what happened. I really hope you understand.
     
    #2 Just Jess, Apr 6, 2014
  3. silly string

    silly string
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    Thank you for the response. And you have every right to express whatever tone you wish regarding the topic or my views on it (which I did not view as angry tbh). And I suppose my ignorance has caught up to me, making me assume things about the medical community that you've shown to be false. I guess I'm just scared of the possibility of being rejected. I have read instances, especially in my local area, where the therapists have been prone to seek out these "red flags" in order to essentially stop a transition. Albeit this was a decade ago, I did think (now, erroneously) it was safe to assume things wouldn't have changed a considerable amount. What you say gives me hope, but I still can't help but feel a "professional reception/approach to my case" is 100% guaranteed, especially if I were to initially present as unsure of myself.

    And on a similar note, what about people such as your parents? Obviously it's more of a case by case basis, but putting myself in their shoes (a position where they're not obligated to necessarily agree/accept my views), they do have the power to severely inhibit a transition if they feel it's for the wrong reasons. Is this where you must wait until you're more independent and can take matters into your own hands?
     
    #3 silly string, Apr 6, 2014
  4. Just Jess

    Just Jess
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    You know I said that, but you're right, there really are therapists out there like you're describing. Doctors and therapists are people with their own way of doing things. Some of them have the same ideas you have, the world is not perfect.

    So I'm guessing if I say "oh here's a helpful link to the WPATH standards of care" that your eyes will glaze over. It's cool, I honestly would not wanna read an entire book. But that book is the "rule book" that doctors are supposed to go by, worldwide, as far as how to help trans people.

    There is another set of rules called the "informed consent standard", but it is very very similar to the one I linked to. Those rules are just less formal.

    So to answer your first question, guessing you don't live in a country with nationalized health care (you're in the U.S.), all the therapists on this list play by that rule book I mentioned:
    Therapists

    Parents and other people are a trickier issue. Because it's not like they teach this stuff in school. People have pretty much the same ideas you came here with. And everyone and their uncle seems to have an opinion about when it's right and wrong for us to transition. Some of those people have a little bit of power over us like parents.

    In that case, I think for some people it can be worth telling anyway, and for some it's not a good idea. If you don't think you will be safe, don't tell, full stop. Or if you just don't want to, don't.

    Otherwise, even if they don't understand completely or get wrong ideas, you can at least live without any secrets, and you can be a little more free to figure out who you are and express that person even if they are just a little bit understanding. Every parent ever almost will have a denial stage and part of that will be thinking exactly the kind of thing you are - it's not real because I saw someone on T.V. once that was a transsexual and you're different. So yeah they might ask point blank "is this is a sex thing for you". If that happens I really would like to encourage you to just be completely honest. "Partly, yeah", if that is the truth of course.

    The whole idea behind coming out is being honest. Nothing you say to them will prevent you from being able to transition when you get out of the house. And it will give you a chance to practice being you in the face of people that don't understand and agree.

    It's a rough process when you start, but if you keep the end goal in mind, you can get through it. Until then there's nothing wrong with planning and figuring out what your options are. This is not a race. Once you have gone through male puberty, no matter what you heard, it doesn't matter how long you wait most of the time.
     
    #4 Just Jess, Apr 6, 2014
  5. silly string

    silly string
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    I guess I'm just being paranoid about this sorta thing. I was faintly aware of the WPATH standards of care, and actually came across the exact same same link of therapists. The specific program I alluded to (where there were complaints filed) was actually listed under the list of therapists, so that alarmed me a little. They did undergo a regime change in the very, very recent past, so I mean, I'm not exactly quick to assume drastic changes have occurred, but I guess that could be a good sign, and perhaps the list was updated to accommodate this new change.

    But I digress, like you said, things have changed tremendously in the past decades and I guess I really shouldn't be all that worried that I'll receive less-than-optimal treatment.

    And it sounds like I should try to weigh my options to see what the best strategy for coming out is, which is fine by me. Since the factors of sex aren't the only discrepancies I have with myself, I can be honest and tell them how I feel, but at the same time "lie by omission". But at the same time, I guess there's no logical reason to omit anything, just intuitively it feels safer to unless directly asked. I'm just musing at this point, no need to really reply if you have nothing to say. But thank you for your replies thus far. They've been pretty insightful, and exactly the kind of responses I'd hope to get signing up here.
     
    #5 silly string, Apr 6, 2014
  6. autogynephilia

    autogynephilia Guest

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    When you can not see the hair on your body, if you like to wear tights, like when you treat your hands and feet and put nail polish on both, when the only aspect of your face that is unable to accept the look, when your penis is one more thing that clashes with the rest of your body, when the goddess of sexual union is also being penetrated, when the gender identity to which you want to join is only the female ... when these feelings are following you every single day WHAT ARE YOU, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO BECOME: Men Trapped in Men's Bodies Main menu. Yes men, but I do not think there are more 'reasons for saying that the mentality of the male must be different from that of the female.
     
    #6 autogynephilia, Sep 28, 2014
  7. BradThePug

    BradThePug
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    This thread is from April, please make sure to check dates before you post :slight_smile:
     
    #7 BradThePug, Sep 28, 2014
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