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A Note on Disrespectful Behavior

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Gates, Apr 23, 2014.

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  1. Gates

    Gates Guest

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    Greetings EC, it's your favorite llama again. Today, I'd like to briefly address something that has, to my surprise, become a noticeable issue on EC and even on this forum: speaking in ways that devalue transgender people, our identities, and the identities of those with whom we may form romantic relationships.

    I would like to address the usage of offensive language. Below is a link to the GLAAD website listing some offensive terms and also listing definitions and distinctions. I would like to address just a few below. https://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender

    1) Intentional or continued use of incorrect pronouns and gendered adjectives - there is no excuse for this under any circumstance. While preferences may vary to include the use of gender-neutral pronouns, in general, the following relationships apply:
    - A transman/ FtM/ transguy/ transmasculine androgyne = (trans)male = variation on a male gender state = use masculine pronouns (he, him, his); if he is sexually attracted to only women (trans or cis), he is heterosexual/ straight; if he is sexually attracted only to other men (trans or cis), he is homosexual/ gay; if he likes both groups, he may identify as bisexual or pansexual depending upon other factors...
    - A transwoman/ MtF/ transgirl/ transfeminine androgyne = (trans)female = variation on a female gender state = use feminine pronouns (she, her, hers); if she is sexually attracted only to other women (trans or cis), she is homosexual/ lesbian; if she is sexually attracted only to men (trans or cis), she is heterosexual/ straight; if she likes both groups, she may identify as bisexual or pansexual depending upon other factors...

    2) Relating transgender identities to sexual fetishes - do not do this. Ever. While like the rest of humankind, some transgender people may have fetishes, these are not related to their gender and should not be discussed in the context of it. Terms such as "transvestite," "autogynephilia," and "autoandrophilia" are terms that pertain to sexual fetishes and not to gender identity or expression. Such discussions do not even belong in this forum but rather in either the sexuality or health forum. Any attempt to diminish the gender identity of another person down to erotic behavior is highly offensive.
    *A further note on this is that not all cross-dressers experience sexual gratification from crossplay; this would not be regarded as a fetish.

    3) The valuing of cisgender people over transgender people (e.g., treating a transman as a "fake" man, etc.) is offensive and discriminatory. A transman is a man. A transwoman is a woman. End of story. Transgender people get enough of this off-site, don't bring it here. Especially in the case of transwomen, who often are subject to the most intense discrimination while having less privilege with which to combat it (as FtMs get male privilege to some dregree). I for one will not tolerate this or any sort of discrimination against anyone, and you can be certain that I will use every bit of male privilege I have to defend these women.

    4) Asking about genitalia or association with genitalia is not acceptable EVER. Do not ask a transman if he "feels female;" if he volunteers this information, that is his business, do not ask for it. Do not ask how a straight man/ lesbian has sex with a pre- or non-op transgender woman; you have no right to know this nor anything else about her body or their intimacy. Do not ask about people's genitals or equate genitalia with gender in this forum. All of us will be offended.

    I could go on forever but I will summarize.

    If you are transgender, you do not have the right to police another person's identity or expression. There is no "trans enough." There is no height requirement. There is no requirement of sexual orientation. We are all unique and we are all valid.

    If you are not transgender, do not attempt to define our identities for us. If we wanted you to do so, we would ask you. If you don't understand something, ask, but do so in a respectful way. If you aren't sure how to ask respectfully, google it or ask. I am open to someone asking me on my wall prior to posting something that may be offensive. If you decide not to utilize the resources available to you to determine what may or may not be offensive, I will assume that you are either a bigot or lazy - I have no tolerance for either kind of person.

    Having said all of this, I will not be debating anyone. Consider this a statement of non-discrimination.

    Llama out.
     
    #1 Gates, Apr 23, 2014
  2. Sarcastic Luck

    Sarcastic Luck
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    Quite honestly, I've never seen #1 happen on EC, outside of someone who was freshly exposed to someone being transgender. In that case, it's pure ignorance and should be excused. It would be different if they continue, purposely, but it's usually obvious that they're struggling with the pronouns. Case in point: significant other just came out as transgender.

    Bringing up male privilege: don't do it. It results in me and several other members to immediately not take you seriously. Not to mention the statement of "male privilege" has been used as a means of insulting transguys. I once was told that because I"m a transguy I'm exempt from male privilege which is a nice roundabout way of saying "lul you're not a guy".

    You forgot 5: a transgender trying to speak for all of us and assuming that we all think the same way. You know what? I'm not going to be offended if someone asks how I'm going to have sex with a guy.
     
    #2 Sarcastic Luck, Apr 23, 2014
  3. FireSmoke

    FireSmoke Guest

    Fuck off, you're right! :eusa_clap Especially the second point. It's unacceptable that some people mistake being genderqueer/trans* from having a fetish about the imagination of being born in the opposite sex. It's so annoying :dry:
     
    #3 FireSmoke, Apr 23, 2014
  4. Trentacles

    Trentacles
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    sorry if i offended anyone. :-(
     
    #4 Trentacles, Apr 23, 2014
  5. Miiaaaaa

    Miiaaaaa
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    I can't believe that these would even happen on here? :/
     
    #5 Miiaaaaa, Apr 23, 2014
  6. FireSmoke

    FireSmoke Guest

    #6 FireSmoke, Apr 23, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 23, 2014
  7. porygon

    porygon
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    At least people on here can forgive and learn from mistakes instead of really hurting someone outside EC.
     
    #7 porygon, Apr 23, 2014
  8. Sarcastic Luck

    Sarcastic Luck
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    ...How the fucking hell is that offensive/disrespectful? Well over half the people posting in that are trans and/or genderqueer.
     
    #8 Sarcastic Luck, Apr 23, 2014
  9. FireSmoke

    FireSmoke Guest

    Well, being genderqueer and being autoandrophile is two different things...
     
    #9 FireSmoke, Apr 23, 2014
  10. Sarcastic Luck

    Sarcastic Luck
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    So have a mod move the thread and stop getting in a tizzy about it. People mispost in the gender forum about sexual orientation stuff all the time. Not to mention, in the past there's been trans/genderqueer people posting here who were confused about sexuality and what they should label themselves.

    With that in mind, I fail to see how it was offensive.
     
    #10 Sarcastic Luck, Apr 23, 2014
  11. FireSmoke

    FireSmoke Guest

    Everyone has a different point of view.


    Those people define themselves BOTH genderqueer AND autoandrophile.

    It's wrong.
     
    #11 FireSmoke, Apr 23, 2014
  12. Sarcastic Luck

    Sarcastic Luck
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    Yay for label policing!

    Genderqueer includes so many genders, or lack of, in the case of agender folk. Is it so hard to wrap your head around the idea of say, a bigender person being an autoandrophile when they feel female?

    This kinda falls into the category of griping because someone is "not being trans enough".
     
    #12 Sarcastic Luck, Apr 23, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2014
  13. BelleFromHell

    BelleFromHell
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    EXACTLY. They were confusing trans/non-binary people with the autoandrophilia fetish, when really, anyone, regardless if they're cis or trans, can have fetishes. I think what everyone's trying to say.

    I don't think anyone was being 'offensive', per say. People weren't being hateful about it, just ignorant.

    I hardly knew anything about trans/non-binary people before EC, so I don't really have the right to blame anyone for being ignorant.
     
    #13 BelleFromHell, Apr 23, 2014
  14. FireSmoke

    FireSmoke Guest


    Okay, if it's fine for you to be called "fetishistic"...okay, it's your own problem. But it's not fine for me.

    Being genderqueer is a thing, being autoandrophile is another. If you are autoandrophile: OKAY, there's not problem. But you aren't authorized to mix up the two things.

    The same: Being gay and being incestuous are two different things. You are support about incest? Okay, there's not problem. But you aren't authorized to mik up homosexuality and the incest.

    Got it now?

    ---------- Post added 23rd Apr 2014 at 06:46 PM ----------
    :thumbsup:
     
    #14 FireSmoke, Apr 23, 2014
  15. BelleFromHell

    BelleFromHell
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    That's a good way to put it.

    I hate it when people mix pedophilia and incest with homosexuality and use that as an excuse to call us all child-moslesters and sluts.

    Of course, autoandrophilia isn't revolting like incest or pedophilia, but I'm sure it still hurts to be called something that you're not.
     
    #15 BelleFromHell, Apr 23, 2014
  16. Calix

    Calix
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    Gates, do you mind if I take your post and re-word it for an LGBT thing happening at my workplace? :grin:
     
    #16 Calix, Apr 23, 2014
  17. FireSmoke

    FireSmoke Guest


    You grasped the point :icon_bigg
     
    #17 FireSmoke, Apr 23, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 23, 2014
  18. Sarcastic Luck

    Sarcastic Luck
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    Not sure what I have to do with anything and being called "fetishistic", but alright.

    The person in the thread wasn't mixing them up. They were saying "this is what I am", and felt it was heavily tied to being genderfluid. All they were asking is if anyone else felt the same.

    For all you know, it could be a method of coping with themselves. Maybe they're not ready to come out to themselves.
     
    #18 Sarcastic Luck, Apr 23, 2014
  19. Gates

    Gates Guest

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    I certainly don't mind. :slight_smile: I hope it goes well. :thumbsup:
     
    #19 Gates, Apr 23, 2014
  20. BelleFromHell

    BelleFromHell
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    Anyway... Thank you for posting this. :slight_smile:

    If I see anyone talking about trans/non-binary people in an ignorant and/or offensive manner on EC, I shall direct them to this page.
     
    #20 BelleFromHell, Apr 23, 2014
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