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Autism and Gender dysphoria all tangled up

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by anonym, Jun 14, 2014.

  1. anonym

    anonym Guest

    I'm really struggling to disentangle my gender dysphoria from my symptoms of asperger's disorder and it's pissing me off.

    I've always been socially awkward, anxious about unfamiliar situations, overwhelmed by noise and crowds, found it difficult to make friends, looked and felt a lot younger than my peers once I got past the age of 9 or 10, I've never had a relationship with anyone of any gender, and I've felt like an outsider my whole life. These are all classic symptoms of asperger's and I can't believe my parents or teachers didn't pick up on this before and get me to see someone for a diagnosis. Growing up, I can't say I was particularly unhappy but I wasn't really happy either. I retreated into my own world making art and reading novels. I suppose I did feel lonely but I had seen for myself that I didn't fit in with the world. I was bullied for about 8 years at school and college and then it started again at university.

    I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression about 3 years ago. At this stage I had no idea I was trans or that I had asperger's disorder. I thought my unhappiness was because I was lacking things in life i.e. friends, hobbies etc. I had a really unhealthy work/life balance. I would study all day every day because I had nothing else. My studies consumed all of my thoughts and I had got to the point where I knew it wasn't healthy. So I took some leave from university, joined some evening classes, found myself a part-time job, started going out drinking for the first time in my life and I felt that at last, I had a life. The problem was, I still wasn't happy. I started unpicking things further and further, believing that the reason I was unhappy with my life was because I was unhappy with myself. That's when I decided I needed to do some work on admitting and accepting my orientation but then in the process, I started questioning my gender identity. The label 'lesbian' didn't sit well with me and I realised it was because I didn't feel like I should be female. I felt like I should be a straight male. Things went a bit crazy for a year as I came to terms with the idea that I was trans and then for the first time in my life, I actually started getting gender dysphoria.

    I thought I had finally got to the bottom of things. Now I knew why I was unhappy and why I had never felt like I fitted in anywhere with anyone. It was because I was the wrong gender. I really believed that transitioning would fix my unhappiness but along the way, I started to suspect there was more to this than being the wrong gender. I am almost certain my dad is autistic and I knew that I had similar qualities. I read about asperger's disorder and thought 'That's me'. I am trying to get a formal diagnosis but my GPs aren't being co-operative. It's really important for me to get this confirmed though because I'm having trouble separating my gender identity from my asperger's disorder. I'm not sure whether I genuinely feel male or whether it's just wishful thinking that becoming a man will fix my social difficulties, discomfort with myself and this feeling of being an outsider. I'm really sure I'm not female but I'm just worried that my tendency for black and white thinking is meaning that I am going with male as the alternative when I could be non-binary.

    I'm not sure if I have explained myself clearly here. Expressing my feelings are not my strong point. I just wondered if anyone else has had a similar experience and could help me disentangle things a bit. Thanks for reading
     
  2. Devin

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    I have Aspergers too, boarder line really. And I also have top dysphoria. But I saw no connection with dysphoria and Aspergers. There is no connection. From the hundreds of hours I spent studying Aspergers I have found nothing linking the two.
     
  3. Just Jess

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    I don't have asperger's autism. I am pretty geeky of course and I can click with a lot of people that have it, but I think part of the reason I can click with them... is because I don't have it.

    What I do have of course is other problems of my own, that exist side by side with my gender dysphoria. While I don't get in to it hardly ever with anyone, more because I don't like bringing other people down when they are coming to me with plenty of their own problems, I have dealt with PTSD from an abusive childhood. This has included what's called "intrusive memories" where bad things that have happened to me or my mom as a kid, have kind of replaced what is going on around me, which is really scary when it happens and I'm off in my own little world. I have had therapy for this and have found some ways to deal with this problem effectively. I'm able to function really well and get past this handicap of mine. I can even drive right by places I used to live without getting very sad and angry now. I have found ways to intentionally keep the memories around and just deal with them quickly when they come up, and they come up less frequently and less intrusively now as a result. It took a long time training myself to take a "run toward my problems instead of away" attitude in general. But it worked, well enough for me to succeed at some things in life that I never could before.

    I think we're all here to practice being us even when there is a stigma attached, and so my period with - I will even call it what it is - mental illness, is I think something I am not going to hide. It is not something I feel makes me less trustworthy or reliable, and it is a problem I was able to treat effectively. But more importantly, PTSD is a problem that, like Asperger's autism, a lot of people like to trivialize or pretend is not real, or is mentioned to get attention. And it's something that gets tangled up with my having to live a double life for years and years.

    So we get a lot of crap ideas from people around us. We all laugh them off as soon as we hear them, but sometimes they sink in, and they really start to mess with you. I used to wonder myself if the reason I don't like men had something to do with my past. And I am pretty sure I am not the only person here who has felt like that. And we come up with our own crap when we find a solution to one of our problems too. Because you are probably right. Fixing your gender problems probably won't fix any handicaps that come with you being autistic.

    The reality is, you know whatever problems a person has, they do not get their own little bubbles. They do interact with each other. I really did have a hard time socializing with pretty much anyone before unless they were a little weird themselves. Part of that might be me being terrified of people like my mom's 2nd husband. Part of that might be that I was terrified of people judging me if they figured out I was trans - or at least not cis straight. There might have been a lot of things. What I do know, is that when I dealt with both of my problems, this stopped being an obstacle for me. I get along with everyone now and am a lot less sensitive as far as what they might think about me.

    The analogy I read that made sense to me was really simple. If you have a broken leg, and a broken arm, fixing your broken arm won't help you walk. But if you fix both you can play tennis again.
     
  4. anonym

    anonym Guest

    Thanks for your replies.

    I do see the two things as mixed together, for myself at least. I didn't really explain it very well. I often feel out of place because of my autism. It's like I'll be in a room of people and I just don't feel like I can relate to any of them. I feel misunderstood, not belonging. I want to be part of the group and feel that sense of belonging but my autism is like a barrier that stops me. I don't know how to interact with other people on a meaningful level because I can't vocalize my own feelings and emotional needs. It really does frustrate me at times because it feels like a blockage or a missing link. I feel something but I have difficulty understanding what it is I feel and how to explain that in words to another person. Then other times, I will just have a total lack of emotion. I notice how other people interact with each other, how they respond to the other person on an emotional level and I am baffled. It just doesn't work that way for me. I do generally understand facial expressions and body language which some people with autism can struggle with but it feels like a language I have learned rather than something which is innate. I often feel like I interact with other people based on a model of what I am supposed to say and this leaves me feeling bad because I feel like I am faking it when I just don't have the emotion behind the words that is supposed to be there.

    The feeling of not belonging in society also coincides with my gender dysphoria. I don't feel like I belong in my own skin but my autism takes this to another level. I sometimes don't feel like I belong in my own bedroom surrounded by all of my personal belongings because I feel so disconnected from the world. It seems strange to me that I own things that other people have designed for human use when I feel very inhuman. It's weird.

    I guess I am just questioning whether transitioning to male gender will present me with a similar set of problems but in reverse. There are times I am sure I feel male and would want a male body, but then other times the idea just feels bizarre and I don't want a male body any more than I want this female body I live in now. Part of my problem could stem from a split personality which I'm still struggling with but I'm just not sure.
     
  5. ginger cthulhu

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    You're not alone in this. I also have asperger's, and relate to almost everything you're saying. Autism does take it to a whole new level. I've struggled for fifteen years, and finally decided that not fully transitioning would be best, for me, as I figured I'd have the same set of problems (but in reverse, like you said). I've slowly started to accept that most days I feel male, but some days I lean towards the feminine side of things. It's all a spectrum to me, and between the gender dysphoria, combined with autism, I ultimately decided to let myself flow on the spectrum dependent on how I feel any given day.

    Some days I even start off more feminine, and by mid day have changed my presentation of myself entirely.

    I feel there will always be times where I sense that I belong nowhere, but even what I perceive to be nowhere is still somewhere in the grand scheme of things.

    Separating the two issues may not even be possible, as they overlap so much. I have a few autistic friends who are battling the exact same thing. I wish I had better, more sound advice but I don't think this topic has been openly discussed very often. I think there are a lot of autistic people out there dealing with this.

    If you're unfamiliar, look up Temple Grandin.
    She touches on this in a few lectures and books, and also is just very reassuring overall on most things concerning autism.

    Best of luck to you. Contact me anytime.
     
  6. clockworkfox

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    I likely have aspergers - looking into getting tested - but I never saw it as mixed up with my gender thing. For me it's like they're just two things about me that make me tend to feel out of place. I don't think that fixing one would fix the other (and to be honest I don't want to "fix" my autistic habits, whether it turns out I'm on the spectrum or not; I don't see anything wrong with the way I work). I can relate to what you're saying a lot though, and I often wonder like you do if transitioning would make me feel similarly, but in reverse. I never associated that concern with my possible aspergers though.
     
  7. Jay47

    Jay47 Guest

    I am a genderqueer aspie with top dysphoria. I think part of it for me was not being able to cope with the change or...blossoming... Of puberty. I currently identify as female and will present as such, except for eventual top surgery. I thin there might be a connection between the two, just because of the overwhelming overlap with the two issues.
     
  8. anonym

    anonym Guest

    Thanks again for more replies.

    Yeah I really feel like the two are connected. I think that my autistic traits make me feel more masculine and could possibly be a contributing factor to my gender dysphoria. However, at the same time, they also make me feel more feminine that the average guy. It's difficult to pin down and I feel like I am in a constant flux, alternating between feeling more feminine and more masculine, sexual and asexual. :confused:

    I think that because of my autism, I find the concept of owning a sexual body very uncomfortable and do wonder if that's why I feel so uneasy about being female bodied when we live in a society in which the female body is so strongly sexualised. On the other hand, I feel equally uncomfortable with the idea of owning a penis (constructed through surgery or prosthetic) and the expectation which would fall on me as a guy to be the instigator of sex. I am seriously wondering if I am asexual because of my autism. It's not that I don't find women attractive. I just feel really uncomfortable with my own sexuality and the idea of being in a relationship or even sex.
     
  9. ginger cthulhu

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    It's not uncommon for those on the spectrum to be so uncomfortable (physically/emotionally) with sex, that they steer away from it altogether.

    If you remove sexual relationships from the equation, how do you think you'd feel then? Perhaps, without that pressure, you could focus more on your gender identity without it being bogged down.

    I have an aspie friend who recently did just that, realized he was asexual, and is very happy with the removal of so much pressure.
     
  10. anonym

    anonym Guest

    The less I think about integrating myself into society (i.e. not putting pressure on myself to be 'normal', socialising, making friends, being in a relationship, having a job that requires interacting with other people) the less I feel the need to fully transition. I am uncomfortable in my own skin but being around others makes my gender dysphoria and anxiety escalate.
     
  11. ginger cthulhu

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    I completely sympathize. All of those things are incredibly daunting, but unfortunately, not entirely avoidable. Are you in any type of counseling for your autism? I started going, finally, about a month ago.
     
  12. anonym

    anonym Guest

    Not at the moment. I'm trying to get my GP to refer me to a specialist to get tested for it. I'm pretty sure that the result will come back positive. If it does, it will confirm my suspicions and hopefully, they will be able to offer me some support and advice on how to deal with it. I think I am becoming more aware of how it affects me and hinders me which I suppose is a good thing. I don't think I have fully accepted that I am autistic though, even though everything points to me being on the spectrum. I even avoid things that cause me to feel more autistic such as planning my time and getting some routine in my life, socializing, making use of my autistic 'strengths' because I guess I don't really want to admit that I have it.
     
  13. ginger cthulhu

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    I don't know how it is in the UK as far as Autism/Asperger diagnosis as an adult, but it's very difficult here. There's still a depressingly large amount of physicians that don't believe that's even a thing. I hope that isn't the case for you at all.

    I find that people with higher functioning ASD/AS know full well they have it before they're diagnosed, and it's often their own conclusions that draw them towards a proper diagnosis.

    As time goes on, you'll continue to become more and more aware of how it affects your life, but you should never feel bad for it. Accepting it can be hard, but always remember there's nothing *wrong* with you. Your brain developed differently, that doesn't make you better or worse than anyone else.

    I will say this though, coming to terms with it and being aware of your autism isn't a bad thing at all. Having routines, being sensitive to sensory processing issues, planning ahead, learning coping mechanisms to make public consumption easier ... all of those things will, in fact, help you lead a calmer and more productive life. Honing in on your strengths can not only give you peace of mind, but boost your self esteem. Everybody needs to do that, not just those on autism spectrum.

    Are there any support groups in your area? I found that talking to other people with ASD made me realize just how okay I really am, autism and all.
     
  14. anonym

    anonym Guest

    I really don't know how easy it is to get a diagnosis here, especially when you're on the higher functioning end of the spectrum. The problem with me is that people perceive me as being very intelligent when in actual fact, I don't feel like I could meet the demands of a relatively basic job, never mind the level I'm supposed to be qualified for.

    Yes, there is a support group. I came across it a couple of weeks ago but I'm not sure how I feel about surrounding myself with a whole room full of people with ASD. I know it's awful of me to say this, but sometimes being among a group of people who have the same issues as yourself can be difficult. For me, seeing the things you hate about yourself in others can be all too painful.
     
  15. TheStormInside

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    I'm not diagnosed with Aspergers/ASD, but I feel I may have it, too, or at least have many of the traits. I have struggled with a lot of the same symptoms as you have, and have done a lot of reading on the subject and interacted online with many "aspies." I don't know the numbers, but there do seem to be a higher percentage of LGBT people on the autism spectrum than there are in the general population. I do not think that transitioning will solve your social problems if you do indeed have autism. I feel like being trans and being autistic are definitely separate things, but being one may lead to a higher likelihood of being the other. Does that make sense? These are just personal theories, but since autism is a neurological condition it kind of follows that other neurological quirks could also be present. For instance, there's a much higher incidence of epilepsy among autistics, as well.

    Are you seeing a therapist currently? You mentioned you are diagnosed with anxiety and depression, so that is why I ask. If so, can you bring up some of these issues with your therapist, while you wait to see if you can get an evaluation for ASD from a specialist?
     
  16. ginger cthulhu

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    Being intelligent, and being able to perform relatively basic job skills, do not go hand in hand. I'm considered intelligent, but I can't do basic maths in my head (like, counting out change when someone would hand me a $10) when I'm under pressure. Even just people watching me work makes me screw up. I can't correspond with people on a regular basis, because the thought alone makes me want to puke (nervousness). I've had so many jobs in my life, and honestly, the best job I had was being a caregiver for those with physical and mental disabilities. However, even that didn't last. I couldn't manage the paperwork. It wasn't that I couldn't figure it out, but that the sheer volume of it overwhelmed me to the point of shutting down.
     
  17. Meander

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    For the record. I don't go out and scream this to the world, but I do have a form of ASD (I was diagnosed at age 3) that affects my ability to socialize. However, I do not have any degree of gender dysphoria. However, one thing EC has opened my eyes to is just the commonplace-ish reality of being transgender and struggling. From the posts I'm reading here, I can see that having it mixed with ASD is a toxic combination at times. My sincerest regards for managing to stay dedicated to making your lives better, against all odds.

    One reason I even joined this site was that the struggles of having ASD/Autism/Asperger's does have one thing in common with those who are LGBT: discrimination and injustice. As much as we would like to deny it, we still have a long way to go before we are accepted in society wholeheartedly and equally. Both of these parties have faced struggles with who they are and will continue to do so until the world is a better place.
     
  18. ginger cthulhu

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    I find that people have a skewed perception of ASD, especially if the person is high functioning. People are quick to insult, and my favorite thus far is "but you look so normal".
    Whether they intend to insult isn't the question, it's the fact they do.
     
  19. anonym

    anonym Guest

    Yes, I am seeing a counsellor and I'm trying to work on some of the things that I believe are caused by my autism but it's not easy without having the diagnosis.

    I'm exactly the same. I used to work in retail and I found myself in similar situations with the cash counting. I did enjoy some interaction with the customers but overall, I felt so drained. I could do the job - keep smiling, keep serving, keep pushing sales - and my managers seemed happy with what I achieved but I have to admit, the more demanding aspects pushed me to the edge of what I felt able to deal with. When I was at university, I found I couldn't handle the workload in the same way that everybody else could. I could only focus my attention and energy on one thing at a time rather than divide myself between say 3 assignments that were all due in around the same time. The stress of it made me incapable of working on anything.

    It's interesting you mention feeling sick just thinking about being in contact with others because for a while now, I have noticed something I often experience and I wonder if it is something to do with my autism. I feel what I can only describe as repulsion when I am talking to people sometimes, either in person or via text/online. It has nothing to do with the other person. It's how I feel about myself. The best way I can describe it is to compare the other person to a mirror in which I get to see bits of my own reflection and I hate what I see. I have felt this way for a long long time and I think that this is partly the reason why I avoid interacting with other people...because I feel so repulsive :confused: In fact, I think that is the exact reason I avoid close relationships with people, because of feeling repulsed by myself. Could that be autism related?

    Thank you for your kind words, Meander
     
  20. TheStormInside

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    Is your counselor aware that you feel you probably have autism? And do they have experience dealing with autistic patients? It seems like if you're working on specific traits and the counselor has the knowledge of how to treat them in an autistic person, the diagnosis is less important. Not to say you shouldn't seek diagnosis of course, I am just speaking about the meantime.

    Ugh, when I worked in retail I was constantly overloaded. Just part time work drained me more than a typical person would feel doing 40+ hours a week. I'd do my job but the rest of life became difficult to function in. Just.. too many people, too much noise.

    The repulsion you are talking about... are you in your mind worried of the other person thinking negative things about you? For example, if you feel you are repulsive a part of your mind is also telling you the person you are talking to thinks you are repulsive, too? Or is this more like... you see something similar to yourself in that person that you don't like about yourself, and that upsets you?