Having No Gender

People have told me that they feel neither male nor female, they simply don't care, or they don't feel like they have a gender at all.

Thing is, "straight" usually means "heterosexual," which stems from "hetero," which means "different." The same applies to "homosexual" - "homo" means "the same."

If you're heterosexual, you're sexually attracted to a different gender. If you're homosexual, you're attracted to the same gender. And if you're bisexual - two genders. Pansexual - all genders. And asexual? None.

So, I think I'll have to disagree with you when you said this:

With labels like straight, gay, bi, etc., it does matter. For non-binary people, it's pretty tough, because saying they're gay when they're bigender, but born male, that would imply that they are a gay male, when they aren't. They're bigender. And it applies to others, too.

A lot of people use things like gynosexual or androsexual as replacement for heterosexual and homosexual. With these labels, your gender doesn't matter.

Obviously, you can identify as whatever you want to. I'm not telling you to stop identifying as straight, because no one should police others' identities. Just sharing my two cents - don't mind me.

 

Oh, I'm sorry. I skipped over that on the first read-through. ):

I can't describe it. Or I can't describe it well, anyway, but I'll try. I guess.

You know how some people feel an affinity to some sort of element, like water, fire, air, or earth? Others don't feel an affinity at all, and yet others feel an affinity to all of them, only a few of them, or their affinity feels fluid.

The affinity to a certain element is like a connection to a gender. The element attracts you more, and when you're surrounded by that element, you feel so much more at home than you do with the others. For example, I feel an affinity towards air (the male gender), but not earth (the female gender). Therefore, when I am in an area surrounded by this element (being perceived as male, etc) I feel really great. When I am in an area surrounded by the earth element (being perceived as female, etc) I feel bad.

I hope that makes sense. Sort of.

And, yeah, I get what you mean. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

I identify as agender, but I also identify as other things because for me, I don't feel like I am a female or male but I certainly have a sense of my gender. For me, my gender is just so vast and unexplainable that it's easier to say I have none than to say I feel everything but in such a sense that I am not anything. I like to equate it to space. My gender is everywhere and very important, but it's mostly made up of empty space. You don't quite know what space is, but it's certainly there and it contains many other things that aren't the same, but are still included. Like, masculinity and femininity are planets and my gender is the void, I touch the planets but I am not one of them. I am everything else.

 

Let's see how I can explain you that... Gender works for me like this: when I am wearing a dress, I want people to know that I am a female wearing a dress. When I am playing video games, I want people to know that I am a female that enjoy these games. When I am refusing to use makeup before going to the mall, I want people to know that I am just a woman that doesn't like using those. When I am sitting with my legs apart and someone else tell me to stop doing that, I get upset because I want to sit in the way I feel more comfortable without my gender putting these limitations on me.

Gender have little to do with what I (don't) like to do, which clothes I'd like to wear or the way I act. My gender is how I want people to recognise me. When people misgender me, I correct them. When someone's having doubts about which gender I am, I tell them that I am a female. When I hear someone saying that females like something I don't or act in a certain way, I let them know that not every woman is going to fit these stereotypes and that I'm a proof of it.

It's hard to explain, really... I hope you got able to understand what I tried to say.

 

If it was easy to describe, I'd have been able to describe it to myself at this point, I think.

For me, it feels a bit like I'm an amalgam. If being male is an apple pie, and being female is a strawberry cake, then perhaps I'm an apple cake. Or a strawberry pie. Or perhaps a strawberry apple compote with whipped cream on top. I do feel like both are a part of me on some level, but I don't really feel like I change, or that I am wholly any one thing. I just am.

EDIT: Gah, now I'm gonna be thinking about making a compote all night.

 

Well, perhaps I shouldn't answer, as I'm in kind of a questioning period right now, but I did identify myself as agender when I signed up on EC, so I'm going to try anyways.
Here is how I see my gender:
-I don't feel entirely comfortable identifying as a woman, but I know I wouldn't feel comfortable as a man either.
- I really don't like attention called to my birth sex or to my gender presentation as such, even if someone is trying to complement me.
-I would go by gender-neutral pronouns if the practice was more mainstream than it currently is.
-I see my personality traits and interests as individual and human, not bifurcated into masculine and feminine.
-I dress in whatever makes me happy on a given day. It might be a skirt, bright colors, and jewelry one day. It might be a bulky suit jacket, slacks, and a man's hat the next. I don't see myself as femme one day and butch the next. They're just clothes. My internal sense of myself is fairly constant.
-The body nature provided is fine. My biological sex doesn't have any meaning beyond simply existing. Sometimes I wish I could experience being both biological sexes, but not enough that I would ever try to alter myself with surgery or hormones.

I don't know if that even makes sense to anyone other than me, but that's the best I can do for now.

 

First, you have to define gender. :lol:

The problem is that the word itself has changed a lot in just the last century. What you might consider "feeling a gender" is probably different from what I consider "feeling a gender", just because we shape the concept of gender from the definition differently.

EDIT: You bring up the idea of masculine/feminine being a category, which is actually not too far off from the origins of the word gender. It was originally the idea of words/language being masculine or feminine. It's been altered over time to cover the categorization of behaviors and norms as well. So I can see what you are trying to get at, but at the same time, what I am trying to describe lacks other words to use. And gender as a word seems to be morphing into something new based on people trying to figure out what is actually going on.

And that's possibly why our experiences are different. To me, there is a sense of self that doesn't change, and those traits are part of that. I express different parts of myself depending on the situation, but it doesn't mean my sense of self has changed, or that those traits are temporary.

It makes a lot of sense to me actually. A lot of what you say isn't too far off from my own experiences. A couple differences, but it mostly makes me go "Yes! I'm not alone!"

 

And that's what we do have in common. Feminine male, and masculine female don't work for either of us. Why can't we simply be nonconforming, but still be male/female? How we perceive ourselves is the difference really. You say you will always be agender. I say I'm always going to be a strawberry apple compote. (No, don't set that in your profile. Bad Alex)

Yet, I'd say those words are tied up in gender. I'd argue that gender is the all-consuming abyss that needs to change, as it tries to represent too many concepts all at once. And because that is the case, it overloads words like masculine and feminine by association.

And I do kinda agree that masculine/feminine != male/female. But what do you tie it to instead of the gender? For example, what makes something masculine? What makes something feminine? I'm curious how you define it so I can understand better.

 

First, thanks for saying that I make sense and that I'm not crazy. I tried discussing this with some people in my real life a few years back and got a "this does not compute" kind of response.

I like this, and it's kind of what I meant about not liking to bifurcate my traits. I understand (and sometimes use) masculine and feminine as culturally understood categories, but I see them as fairly arbitrary and as coming with a lot of baggage

 

Hm, well, I classify myself as an androgyne. For me, gender isn't so much about having as not having a certain gender.

There are some days that I'll feel as though my body is male and other times when I'm highly aware that I'm a female, however, in general, it really just doesn't matter to me.

Like you, it's a bit hard for me to conceptualize gender :lol: I always feel sort of confused when someone says something like 'But you should act like a girl!' or 'That's a man's job!' because honestly, I don't feel like it applies to me one way or the other.

 

Masculinity and femininity has different connotations depending on culture and personal interpretation.

In my culture, the night is seen as feminine - dark, not light - but yes, gentle, sweet, and soft, as well as passive. The day is seen as masculine - bright, aggressive, strong, enduring, and energetic.

And, where I live now, masculinity does not mean emotional at all - it means composed and calm, while femininity suggests emotional traits.

I have a feminine gender expression.

What it means to me:

- I express emotions more.
- I prefer to be not muscular.
- I don't prefer a low voice.
- I tend to be shy and reserved.

What it doesn't mean to me:

- I'm more emotional.
- I want to be petite.
- I want a high voice.
- I'm not aggressive.

Because, unless it's something or someone I really care about, I'm probably not going to feel a lot. And I really prefer if I were bigger than petite. And I don't want a high voice - I want a middle voice. And I'm pretty aggressive if I feel like I need to. Plus, body hair makes me feel nice.

Will people consider some of my traits masculine? Yes, they will. But will I? No, I won't.

Gender expression means different things to different people. Some effeminate people will shave their body hair. Others, like me, won't. And some masculine people will shave their body hair. Others won't.

And it's not limited to just body hair. Clothing, emotional expression, everything - even color preferences, if someone feels like it fits.

So if this burly, hairy, mean-looking bearded man comes in, a lot of people will label him masculine. But his personality expression is soft, gentle, and sweet - things he considers feminine. So his gender expression may be feminine.

On the other side, a petite woman with nicely styled hair and a flowy pink dress may come in, and a lot of people may label her feminine. But her personality expression is aggressive, stoic, and harsh - things she considers masculine. So her gender expression may be masculine.

It's the same with non-binary people, as well as androgynous gender expression. Femininity and masculinity are't restricted to physical appearance, and it's not restricted to personality expression either.

Just my two cents, anyway.

 

I think I identify as a woman because I enjoy being one and been perceive as one. A gender is a range of stereotypes (putting aside the biological side of it). If you prefer to conform to more masculine stereotypes, you may consider yourself a man (because you enjoy being perceive as such and doing manly stuff). That would be my way of explaining what gender means: you like being a woman/man, despite all the difficulties. But, like trying to explain colors to a blind person, it's hard to make sentences that make sense out of pure feelings.