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musings on passing

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Kasey, Aug 27, 2014.

  1. Kasey

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    You know, I've had this kind of obsession with trying to become the next supermodel. I can't. Neither can many other trans or cis females. One has to work with what they are given. I will admit when I see a gorgeous trans woman I'm jealous. But I can live with just being an "ok to look at every day girl".

    That gets down to the point. My concern is passing. I.E. The ability to be considered your gender. While a lot of us have our off days, we have our good days. I'm trying to reach the point of not being misgendered, as we all should be.

    Passing does not mean being a beauty queen or a stud. And sometimes we forget that.

    Let us not forget there are also very feminine cis males and masculine cis females. There is a broad spectrum out there. And I think we all get caught up in a "what about me" situation.

    For those of you who have completed the journey, I say blaze the trails for those of us on it and guide the up and comers.

    For those who are just starting their journey, as much as i hate to look at my old pictures at my start, I leave them up for posterity sake. For those of you who have told me that you look up to me as where you're trying to go and think you'll never get there, compare the old to current me. Perhaps I should listen to myself when I think I can't get to the level of the ones I look up to.

    We all start somewhere. We all have what we have.

    A friend reminded me of the simple sentiments that beauty and passing aren't the same thing even though they can have overlap.

    Sorry if that didn't make sense.

    I had to write this out of a moment of insecurity (that came with that gut wrenching jealousy) after seeing a not even trans woman but just a guy crossplaying who put cis females to shame.

    Ok I'm done now.
     
  2. HappyGirlLucky

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    This is a very important distinction, one I failed to make (still do some days) in the beginning of my transition. I started taking a real close look at people, and realized a lot of women who are considered extremely beautiful have quite masculine faces while some faces that would be considered less attractive can have very feminine features.

    I second being very happy with being an "OK to look at everyday girl"; heck, I'm even OK with being a weird looking female. Being correctly gendered is by far the most important thing to me, but since I'm a lesbian looks don't perhaps matter as much to me as it might to someone interested in being hit on by men.
     
  3. Kasey

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    I've had cis females say they were jealous of my features... so you're right.

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And the term masculine vs. feminine body structures are relative. Hell I was looking at my colleagues today. Some of them as cis females I think have broader shoulders proportionally than I do.

    And when we look at ourselves here, advertising we are trans, we already have that preconception and look for biological cues.

    I know when I go into public people don't look at me twice or even with a "huhhhh?" Look. That's passing.

    I should be happy with that yet strive for more.
     
  4. Rabbbit

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    I read a long and very interesting article about a trans woman who practiced "deep stealth" for decades and decades. The lengths she went to were incredible, and after reading the whole thing I felt a little... lost, and sad. Mostly for her. I haven't come to terms with how I feel about passing (though that's putting the cart before the horse, I haven't even begun a real transition, though my own perception of my identity is venturing there). I'm fascinated by the desire to pass, and the arguments on both sides of the argument over whether or not passing is a goal anybody should aspire towards.
     
  5. HappyGirlLucky

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    You're doing great, and you're not even on hormones yet!

    I think just about every woman (cis or not) sees all the flaws plus some made up ones when looking at herself in the mirror, but overlooks her good features. However, like you said, people won't be taking that close a look at you in public while users of this forum who are aware of your trans status will scrutinize every tiny detail. The amount of "huhhhh?" reactions is a very good way to gauge how well you pass, I use that too. :lol:

    I think we could all use a reminder or two that we should be happy with what we have. :slight_smile:
     
  6. Kasey

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    Why wouldn't it be a goal?

    Why be a world famous sprinter? Why be a PhD in astrophysics?

    And sometimes I don't bother trying to pass auditorily although that wouldn't be bad. In fact I want to and am using a program to train my voice.
     
  7. Rabbbit

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    I guess one argument for why it might not be a goal is that being trans man or woman means something different to being a man or a woman. Passing as a woman almost rejects that identity? I don't know.

    The sprinter/PhD in astrophysics are both things one would do rather than a question of who one is. I know we say "I am a sprinter" but is that the same thing as saying "I am a woman," and is that the same as saying "I am a trans woman"?
     
  8. HappyGirlLucky

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    I was extremely worried about whether or not I would pass when I started my transition. Since then I've come out to a lot of people without anything scary or weird happening, so I'm not going to go to extremes to practice so called "deep stealth".

    I initially considered deep stealth my only option, but the reasoning behind that was rooted in shame and fear of violence mostly. Currently I'm not on one side of the argument or the other, I think everyone should make up their own mind in this regard.

    Edit after reading posts that were made while I was writing this:

    Passing is very important to me still, but deep stealth is not. I NEED to be gendered correctly. I don't identify as a "trans woman" but simply as a woman. I don't feel the need for "deep stealth" as it seems my transition hasn't been very interesting to people and I'm not worried people will start misgendering me suddenly.
     
    #8 HappyGirlLucky, Aug 27, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2014
  9. Kasey

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    I'd love to achieve deep stealth. But I'm content with the correct gender ing pass.

    I've not so far been misgendered in public. I have at worst been addressed gender neutral. But I do get missed too.

    My friends and family (brother only) still call me dude and sir and stuff... but that's ok for now...
     
  10. KayJay

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    I haven't been misgendered in public in quite a long time but on the flip side I don't get gendered that much in the first place. I get the occasional Ms or ma'am but usually people probably don't know which pronouns I prefer and opt to not use any. I used to think this was bad because obviously I am not female enough (I think it is probably the voice :s) but these days I have tried to think about it positively. I may not be female enough for a ma'am but at the same time I am not male enough to be sir'd. So at least I don't get misgendered, I just don't get gendered as much and I am starting to think that's ok.

    My real "problem" is my voice probably. These days I feel like I may not ever really change it. I usually try to speak a little high up, more nosey, when I am out in public but I don't really sound that great. I just feel lazy trying to practice my voice, it is so scary to change it all of the sudden. I've been feeling like I have come such a long way with my looks and I don't usually get really sad about my looks as much as I used to, so I don't care about my voice because no matter how I talk I feel like a female. I think that is the most important part. Passing to yourself.
     
  11. Kasey

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    Sistah, I totally get the voice thing. First it's not consistent for me. Even if it wasn't totally female, I understand women do have deeper voices too, but I can't hold a consistent tone and pitch. That is my biggest problem with passing as I interact with people. I hope this program helps me at least become consistent.

    And as far as passing to myself?

    There was one day were I was looking in the mirror and om like "who the fuck is she? She's kind of cute. Oh shit... that's me".

    When you start to convince yourself you were born female then that's a wonderful feeling.

    I do hate it when I'm looking at my viewfinder and I see amazing images but they come out looking like shit in the actual photograph.

    But it is really making me content looking at myself as I really want to be seen in a mirror. I feel so at peace with myself.

    I want to be the me you see in my avatar all the time.
     
    #11 Kasey, Aug 27, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2014
  12. looking for me

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    (&&&) you are a beautiful person inside and out as far as i can see.
     
  13. HappyGirlLucky

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    I'm from a country where you generally don't gender people at all. So the only thing I have to go by is how people react to my presence.

    The voice thing. :bang: Ugh! I tend to speak very softly, in short sentences and pray people don't think I sound too weird. I get lazy too, because it's very frustrating when it feels like you're not really making any progress or even making it worse. I really need to work more on it!

    I feel like the least photogenic person in human history. I have to take 100 selfies to get a single decent one. :dry:
     
  14. Kasey

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    Oh I know about the 1 100 selfies deal. I KNOW I look better in the viewfinder than the pictures show. The ones that I post are the ones that come out as I see.

    We can't be supermodels all the time in pics... but I swear I'm being taunted by the camera.
     
  15. HappyGirlLucky

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    I agree, I feel the cameras are exacting their revenge on me for always avoiding them. I like the mirror a lot better, it doesn't hold grudges like that.
     
  16. jay777

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    Its really regular training... every evening, for example... and not overstraining the voice...
    there are times when you do not feel much progress... but then there are times when you really get a feeling for it :slight_smile:.
     
  17. Kasey

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    I hate looking at myself as male in pictures. I always look stupid... i hate pictures as male.