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Friend being transphobic

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by tone, Oct 6, 2014.

  1. tone

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    Sorry, this doesn't really have a huge point, but I just really needed to rant somewhere and I figured this would be a good place. As background, I'm a fairly liberal person and one of my friends is very very conservative. We argue a lot, but generally get over it and don't let it stand in our way. But one thing that bothers me is his refusal to accept gender-neutral pronouns. Today I got a long lecture about how they/them as a neutral pronoun is grammatically incorrect and how any other pronouns such as ze/zir sound wrong because there are no other english words that sound similar. I get that it might be hard for some people to understand non-binary genders and gender-neutral pronouns but come on...

    Then he said that pronouns relate to sex, not gender. So if someone has a y chromosome they're a he and if not, she. I tried bringing up intersex people, but since they either have a y chromosome or not, apparently that is how we should figure out what pronouns to use. Then, after trying really hard not to (because dysphoria and I'm not out to him) I brought up transgender people. Some gems from that conversation included, 'you can never be transsexual because no matter what you either have a y chromosome or not' and 'transgender people are the exception, not the rule, they're so uncommon it's not worth taking into consideration'.

    Then he said that if someone doesn't want to use he or she pronouns you should just always call them by their name instead. All throughout this conversation he tried so hard not to use they/them pronouns and said things like 'if you don't know the gender of a person or that person doesn't want to be called he or she, then you should always call that person by his or her name'. Once he slipped up and used they, which I pointed out and he told me "you've corrupted me" and told me that whenever he hears they/them it confuses him and he can't figure out the subject, even when he says it.

    Basically, he used grammar as an excuse to be transphobic and dismissed an entire group of people as insignificant. He always tells me that I'm just a crazy liberal and I should stop looking at all those leftist blogs (aka tumblr). The thing is, I don't think I have insane views, I just think that people should be treated with respect and not told what they can and can't be based on their chromosomes. Ugh, sorry just needed to vent.
     
  2. Dakeli27

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    It's not worth taking into consideration? Ouch.
    People like this will pretty much always exist, people who refuse to see gender as independent of sex, and pronouns can be hard to argue. Just tell your friend that people shouldn't be forced to be called he or she if they don't want to, any more than anyone else should be categorized and dismissed.
     
  3. DoriaN

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    I myself don't really like gender neutral pronouns so I can see how he feels in that regard, however the chromosome thing is completely out to lunch.

    Some men lose their genitalia; are still male.
    Some men have xx chromosomes; are still male.
    Some men were born women; are still male.

    Of the above 3, only the last one is transgenderism and it gets social stigma; the other two do not and are often birth by products that often get ignored.

    This friend sounds like he prides himself on being smart, when he acts so unwise. I'd say confront him, or risk having a negative friend. True friends sting each other with honest words, and true friends heal from such. Poor friends lie and stay quiet to save face.
     
  4. Fallingdown7

    Fallingdown7 Guest

    The chromosome thing is hilarious to me. What about cis women who have CAIS? Are we supposed to say "he" even though everyone reads them as women?
     
  5. LibertyValance

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    He is using Grammar to oppress and dismiss people you say?
    Sounds like we have a....
    *puts on sunglasses*
    Grammar Nazi!

    ......

    Sorry, I couldn't help myself. Your friend certainly sounds like quite a close minded individual though. There is always a chance he may have an epiphany and see the light, but if someone is that close minded I doubt it. Some people just have certain things too ingrained in their mind to ever change, hopefully things work out for the best though.
     
  6. tone

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    I agree completely, I mentioned that, I didn't know the name, but I'd heard of it. But apparently stuff like that is so uncommon that it's an exception to the rule according to him. I know intersex people get dismissed a lot as being uncommon, but I looked CAIS up and about 1 in 20,000 people have it, you can't just ignore 350,000 people. And that's just that one intersex condition. I think once you make up your mind on something you'll make excuses no matter what.
     
  7. NingyoBroken

    NingyoBroken Guest

    Forget that shit, and tell him outright that he is ignorant.
     
  8. clockworkfox

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    You know what else is really uncommon? Red-haired people. They're so uncommon that we shouldn't take them into consideration. After all, the two prominent genetic alleles are for brown-hairedness and blonde-hairedness. The chances of having red hair are so slim that it isn't worth taking into consideration that some people have red hair. Considering third options like this is hard, and confusing for me. Why can't we just keep it simple?

    Funny how throwing elementary-level genetics concepts into things sounds so stupid in regards to everything else, yet a shocking number of people still love to do it when it comes to the concepts of sex and gender. Some people just want to live in their safe little black and white bubbles I guess.