for all trans ladies or crossdressers

Just a bit of symantics, especially because I know you didn't mean it in a bad way. But lumping in transwomen, crossdressers, and female impersonators all into the same group could be seen as offensive.

"Female impersonator" is an anachronistic term for a drag queen, while transwomen are women, not impersonating women. And crossdressers generally are not attempting to "pass" so they aren't really impersonating either. Just a heads' up on some language stuff

 

Explain. Everything.

 

Is this some sort of cult?

I was crossdressing before you were born we have the googles now yo!

Also yes you might want to be careful regarding your wording, I understand you're excited but the last thing we want to do is continue to keep spreading misinformation.

 

Well transwomen aren't cross-dressing. :/ I think "DMAB that always or sometimes identify as female" is probably a better way of putting it?

 

(*hug*) I'd say just continue... maybe Ryujin has one or two questions ?

 

We aren't though, we are helping by making sure you are aware of any discrepancies.

I mean, your topic is about you trying to give advice, but if you yourself are unsure or make mistakes in phrasing then should we let you stumble and fall or should we help and give you a hand?

 

I don't think it's people being PC. Queens are very cool people IMO. The language, "looking fishy", all that goodness, they know how to make it fun to be a girl.

People are saying it's "Hi internet, I wanna be everyone's drag mother". I mean you know, I know how you feel. You figured some stuff out for yourself, you're proud. I was so proud of all the stuff I figured out on my own. You just wanna get out there and share it with the world and that's really cool

Just I mean you are talking to other people that have been doing this our whole lives too you know? So I mean it kind of makes you sound like... I dunno... like you're putting on airs. I mean you probably aren't meaning that at all, you are like "I just wanna help people darn it!". I mean I don't like tearing people down, I like building them up, you know? But I think... you know if I had a piece of broccoli in my teeth I would want someone to say something? So in that spirit. And I know you are mature enough to take this the right way. Sweetie you are not, at the tender age of 13, the world's authority on cross dressing. None of us are.

But you know, if you truly want to help people? That is so awesome The best way to do that though : never ever stop learning. There's things that other people do better than you. There's things you probably do better than me, and there's things I probably do better than you. So never put yourself in that place where you are like "I know everything I need to, now you all can learn from me". No one ever reaches that place. All the people that are the best at anything? They avoid that place like the plague!

I think it is so awesome that you want to be a drag mother. I am 1000% behind that. You are awesome for that. I'm just being constructive. 90% of it, if you are going to be a good one, is getting other people to come out of their shells and experiment on their own. You give them the paint, they paint the picture. It's hard and frustrating, but well, that's why the people that are willing to do that are the best. If it were easy? Everyone would do it.

So how about an open thread where we can all learn from each other And all the cool tricks are here in one spot for anyone in the world to see?

---------- Post added 22nd Nov 2014 at 04:13 PM ----------

Or you know if you are more comfortable on your own wall hey, I respect that. All I am saying, is don't close yourself off to learning from other people, okay? You have a lot of potential and it would be a real shame for that to go to waste

 

Oh shush you are making me blush (*hug*) You're really sweet for putting this thread together. I think things will work out just fine.

Well hey something I always could use advice on is make-up, we can talk about that here or via wall posts. I'm getting better at it but it is so frustrating sometimes.

 

There were quite a few good makeup tips here:
http://emptyclosets.com/forum/gender-identity-expression/151212-makeup-tips.html#4

(*hug*)

 

Thanks Jay

 

DMAB/ DFAB = Designated male/female at birth. I in no way criticized you. I merely explained that your wording could be harmful/ offensive/ dysphoria-causing to people, in a polite and tactful way. I did not mean to attack or demean you. Also, I am allowed to my own opinions and may to reply to whichever threads I see relevant. Limiting and telling people not to comment is not very helpful.

I understand that the point of the thread was to help people, but correcting you is the only way you will be aware and learn that certain phrases and terms are inappropriate.

As for the term drag mother, again, I don't find that term appropriate for this situation either. Drag is a very specific type of cross-dressing, done usually by gay males. Drag =/= helping male-bodied females pass as females. Just not the same thing.

 

This thread might be used for people just to ask some questions... thats how threads go... and I think its a good idea to encourage asking questions...

to me it was clear there was nowhere an offense meant... and its naturally a spectrum of people using methods...

so maybe there are some more questions, which many people, not only the OP, would help to answer...


(*hug*)

 

I can agree with part of that, the "drag is a specific type of cross dressing done usually by gay males" part. But if I understand where the term comes from, it's a shortening of "dressed like a girl". Its opposite would be "drab".

To be honest, I think there is a lot of unnecessarily divisive language between the cross dressing, drag queen, and transsexual parts of the transgender umbrella. The simple fact is, we have a lot more in common than we pretend we do. A lot of people designated male at birth, that identify as men (more often gay), manage to pull off expression a million times more feminine than I am capable of, and if you get talking to them do identify with women in some ways. Shoe on the other foot, if I were capable of having a boyfriend, it would make me feel a million times more feminine, possibly to the point where I'd have been able to cope without transitioning for a few more years.

And who is to say how many "gay" people of both genders have been keeping a need to transition in the closet for fear of screwing up a good relationship? How different is that from my keeping secrets for fear of screwing up my "straight" relationship? Or flip the script, orientation. How many of us carry hang-ups from our former lives and never tell anyone that we secretly prefer our birth sex? Or how many of us, like myself, try at some point in our lives to "force" an attraction to our birth sex in order to feel "normal" and be accepted as our destination sex more easily?

All I'm saying is, this stuff is complicated, and if we continue making all the drag terms "off limits" completely - even in situations like this where, at least I feel, they're completely appropriate - we are going to end up alienating people in a place where we're supposed to be trying to help everyone.

I have personally received awesome advice from people who call themselves drag mothers. And I believe that description fits the OP perfectly. I think bi and pan people are "allowed" to be queens too. Drag performers are an invaluable source of advice in terms of helping male bodied females pass as females. There are differences; drag is a heck of a lot more festive and "Lisa Frank" than what someone just looking to feel less exhausted and terrible 24/7/365 is going to go for typically. And of course, while surgery is a need for only some of us, it's a heck of a lot more common a need for transsexuals than drag queens (many of whom are very happy with their bodies and would actually regret changing them).

But if you are looking to, say, contour make-up? Use a little less glitter than recommended of course But yeah, drag people can and do help us trans people all the darn time. You just have to be nice and ask.

 

Agreed! And while it might happen occasionally with cis women, I find myself more often admiring, feeling envious of, and even attracted to trans women, drag queens, and cross dressers, possibly because 1) There are traits that separate them from cis women, whether they be physical, ingrained social habits, or whatever, and it seems like they have a more "open" view of expressing themselves, a more critical view that many cisgenders seem to take for granted, 2) I can actually see them coming from a similar place, since being born female-bodied is just never going to happen for me, ever.

They might hate being confused with one another, but there are similar struggles, plus steps in presenting in a way that feels authentic and comfortable. I've gotten plenty of good tips from members of each group, personally, and I try not to limit myself in learning. The trans community here is rather small, so you see a lot of mingling between the mentioned groups, and it's not at all unheard of for a transgender to also perform in drag, or cross dressers later deciding that living as their preferred gender is the way to go.

It's also important to remember that the distinctions we have today weren't always to pronounced in the past, and several cultures today group them together under one group. While I'm totally aware of the differences and think it's important to make a distinction, I don't get a lot of the tension and distance that exist between a few individuals who want nothing to do with the "others". Just like the LGB and T, there are plenty of folk who are gender-variant but not transgender, and also transgenders who are non-heterosexual.

PS While I don't relate to the idea of "womanhood" in the same way others might, I would ideally like to pass closer to the transfeminine side of the spectrum. The only problem is by passing as a woman, all those expectations and whatnot would come with the package, and that's the last thing someone like we wants or needs. So it's a bit of a catch-22, that by presenting the way I'd like full-time, it would result in more frustration and confusion. Hmm...