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Diagnosis and Flexible Labels

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Tai, Nov 28, 2014.

  1. Tai

    Tai
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    I have two questions I am curious about what you think...

    1. Is self-diagnosis okay? Should you be diagnosed by a counselour/therapist becore you identify as a non-cis gender? I guess this is a rhetorical question. Many of you do self-diagnosis here. But I want to know your reasoning behind this. If you've seen my posts, you'd know that my mom doesn't agree with me self-diagnosing myself as trans male, and that's why I have a therapist now (I also asked for one).

    2. Do you think labels should be more flexible or rigid? If a DMAB feels like a girl 70% of the time and a boy 30% of the time, is it fine to call themselves trans female, or should it be more rigid?

    Just something to think about.
     
  2. DoriaN

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    Only going to answer #1.

    I'm not a big fan of self diagnosis.

    Like, I do believe in personal research and then bringing said thoughts or concerns to someone else, but it's very risky going by only 1st party wisdom.

    That's why when people write they have someone proof read, we don't always realize how we ourselves are or how we come across.

    For example, my ex girlfriend thought she was very mature, more mature for her age than others, when actually the opposite was true. She was incredibly IMMATURE, but was too blind to see or even hear it.

    If a person questions their gender, that would be their initial self diagnosis, however I think the followup and debrief should be professional only.
    I've heard stories of people having mild gender issues, seeing a doctor being told they're trans, transitioning and then later going wait I'm not trans F U doctor rawr.

    For myself I had a lifetime of questioning, so there was no doubt in my mind my issues of gender were rooted; but even then I was apprehensive and scared and waited. Now I know how much I want it and where my feelings lay.
     
  3. jay777

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    This is a hugely mixed bag.
    There are people who looking back say its the only thing making sense.
    There are professionals who give different opinions... hopefully not too wide away from each other...

    In my opinion its like Auguste Rodin, a sculpturor, was asked how he came by his statues.
    He said they were always there in the marble, he just helped them out.

    Its the same here: you should be helped to recognize what you want.

    Concerning idendification and being sure, you might have a look at this:
    http://emptyclosets.com/forum/anonymous-gender-identity-expression/149111-am-i-ftm.html#4

    http://emptyclosets.com/forum/gender-identity-expression/153143-so-confussed.html#17


    If you in general feel unsure because of a very strong mother you might make that also part of your discussions with your therapist...

    I'd say take your time... learn to listen to your inner voices... sometimes we get a good idea of that, and it might be trained, if listened to in small things...

    (*hug*)
     
  4. Just Jess

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    I think the word "diagnose" can mean two really different things.

    I don't think you should have to go to a doctor before you can say "I am trans", because I don't think you should have to go to a doctor before you can say "I am gay". It was wrong when gay people were forced to deal with that mentality, and it's wrong when we are. This is something that demands introspection. There are things only you know and experience. Other people can only help you explore that.

    But I also think there is a difference between saying "I am trans" and "I need hormones and/or surgeries". Before I go on, I absolutely need to be on hormones, there are a lot of people like me, and I should not have had as hard a time as I had, during that year between when I came out and the beginning of this year. My coming out to myself and others was absolutely a vital part of all this. I believe I am the only person that can say I am trans, and if I say I am trans, I am. I am a fan of the informed consent model - which has been largely included in the official standards of care anyway - and I do believe that us having access to proper care is still a huge problem. I just don't want people to get the wrong impression.

    Being on the wrong hormones is bad news for anyone. Just as being on the wrong any kind of medicine is bad news for anyone. The tricky thing about hormones is, they are the drug you can't help but take. Also, like any drug, their usage must be carefully monitored. Surgeries require a huge amount of obligation. And so as far as any kind of medicine is concerned, I personally think a doctor should always ideally be involved. There is a personal element here. I don't, for example, think anyone that does not want to be on HRT should be put on it. There have been cases in history where people were pressured into taking them, and that was terribly wrong. And again, there are parts of this that only you know about and can experience. But that's whether you are trans. I absolutely think a doctor should carefully screen people for counter-indications - for example someone with a bad heart condition, should not be on added testosterone - and then decide whether medicine is right for you.

    So as far as who should be diagnosed for medical help, I think the Standards of Care have pretty good guidelines. If someone has taken steps toward transition, and they have all been positive, and there are no counter indications, I don't see any reason any of us should ever be denied medical help. Realistically some of us are, and for bad reasons, so while I don't condone "self medding", because in my view if the "right" way doesn't work and we all just "cheat", then the "right" way never gets fixed for the people stuck doing it that way. But I do understand people's reasons. Us just being who we are is politically controversial, and that sucks a lot, and sometimes people do make treatment decisions based on that. Sometimes that kind of "self diagnosis" is someone's only option. But our medicine, while safe if used properly, can kill if used improperly. So yes, I think overall, you should be diagnosed for medical help.

    As far as labels, they are what they are. There's a reality to them that some of us can't escape. I can't change my visceral reaction to the word "sir". It's just there. Part of me knows when I am being treated "like a guy" and it will always be there. But beyond that, I think they're just words honestly. I don't think any label can sum up a person completely.

    I also think that socially, we take a ton of things that are true for both sexes, and label them "guy things". And we take a lot of things that are not true for either sex, and label them "girl things". So I think people that grew up in the female role, are going to have a ton of experience not fitting into either bucket. I'm "enjoying" some fo that experience myself more and more. So I think that plays into these discussions when we talk about labels, whether "gender" the way we use it is real, that kind of thing.

    All that's real, is who you are, and what you need to do to live life. I think trans people deserve a shot at the same advantages non-trans people take for granted, especially since it is an option for us. Everything else is just how we make that happen.
     
    #4 Just Jess, Nov 28, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2014
  5. Tai

    Tai
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    I see what you all are saying... Thanks for your opinions.

    I'm not sure I quite agree with this. With my personal experience (in no way saying this is true for everyone), I feel that gender identity for transgendered people is much more complex and fluid than sexuality for queer people.

    Take me for example. I figured my sexuality in a month or two. Again, this is just my experience; not everyone figures it out that fast, I get it. I found a boyish girl attractive, and got confused, then just figured out that I like masculine women and cis and trans men. Sexuality, to me, is a fact: if you're attracted to people of the same gender, you're gay. If you like both genders, you're bi. If you like the opposite gender, you're straight. If you like a people of the same gender and a few from the opposite, you're homoflexible. It seems to be facts.

    But gender is more complex. There are so many factors in figuring it out. With sexuality, if you constantly find people attractive that show you're not completely straight, it's an undeniable fact that you're at least a little queer. Gender, however, has allowed so many exceptions and flexibility. If you feel masculine, you could be a trans male, androgyne, transmasculine, third gender, demiguy, or just a masculine girl/tomboy. There is so much room to identify as something different than your overall energy. I feel as if I have feminine energy, but male? Which confuses the heck out of me. But do you see what I mean? And the whole point I'm trying to make is that because gender is so much more complex than sexuality... Yes, I don't think you need to go to a therapist to confirm that you're gay. But you should with gender identity. As Doria said above with her editing analogy, people may not realize things about themselves that others can.
     
    #5 Tai, Nov 28, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2014
  6. Jinkies

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    I guess I kinda self-diagnosed?

    I did go to a counselor to hear a 2nd opinion on it, and she didn't really say whether or not I was trans. She did give me several guides to helping me accept myself as an LGBT person, and she gave me some pages on different genders, so I guess that was kind of her way of saying "Yeah, you're transgender"?

    I really don't condone just seeing a gender and saying "Yeah, I'm that" without very much thought. Seriously put some deep thought into it. I know for some people it's almost an instinct kind of thing, where they KNEW they were transwoman or transman from the age of 3. But even if you're one of those people, this kind of thing isn't one of those things where you think about it like what you're going to have on your pizza. It's a much deeper thought than that, and it takes a great deal of self-research.

    As for the 2nd question, I think it mostly depends on the person. If they don't want a label, they don't have to come up with one. But if they want a label, then there's one out there that fits what they are. Transgender people have been around since ancient times, and so have their labels.
     
  7. ForNarnia

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    Personally, I think self diagnosis is okay, but obviously, it would help to get a second opinion :slight_smile:
     
  8. Just Jess

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    I think it's awesome that we can have a civil discussion about this that we are both likely to walk away from with a little more understanding :slight_smile: You have no idea how awesome that is. That is one of the things I like about EC, there are a lot of wicked smart people here without huge egos.

    I really feel like that is subjective though. For me it was the opposite. I knew I wanted to be a woman for a long time. The first time I accidentally used the girl's bathroom in elementary school I can't begin to describe how that felt. When I was discovering my sexuality, every time I played with my (pretty much all female) friends as a kid. This part of me was there. I'm not saying you have to be like that to be trans at all. I just was. Being male was always an exhausting act for me, and my need to "come up for air" had kept me from sleeping. When I was in the military I was desperate enough for just a little bit of time as myself I payed over $100 for a hotel since most of them in port were booked. I don't understand, but I accept, part of me really needs me to be a woman.

    But growing up, because of what "normal" is and what people talk about, I thought I was "gay" in the "attracted to my birth sex" sense. It was really confusing the first time - this is kind of a personal topic to begin with so just kind of forewarning - the first time one of my friends showed me their penis, and the first time I tried to make out with a man, the first time I actually went so far as to try to grab someone else's penis - it felt wrong each and every time. My sex drive was shut down. This just will not work. But why won't it work? Am I not really a woman? People on the internet told me "oh your sexuality will drift with hormones" and mine never did. Everything about being with another woman always felt right from start to finish. So for many years it was "am I gay? am I straight? Where the heck do I fit in with this?"

    So, like you said, it was just facts. Just that the facts made my gender clear, and made my sexual orientation hard to figure out.

    Changing my starting point didn't make things clearer. Letting go of other people's expectations and just following my own head and heart and mother nature, did. I think there are a lot of things about both sexuality and gender that only I can possibly know. Other people have gender stereotypes, and I think in my case I showed how those stereotypes can be harmful.

    I can meet you partway. I do think therapists can help people explore themselves. A lot of people in the male role would probably be terrified to experiment as much as I was inclined to. And I think therapists are great at getting people past those walls. Plus, a lot of us can be really unsure, until we hear something from someone else that makes it "official". Otherwise we won't give ourselves permission to get past our little obstacles. Things like that, a therapist can help. We live in a world where cis and straight is normal, and anything else is scary. And where most people just have no room in their day to day lives, like when I was in the military, for figuring themselves out. Gender therapists that are trained to help with that problem? Completely necessary and worth the money. Plus, as guides to the transition process itself? Same thing. We need them and I'm glad they are out there.

    But especially with all the obstacles us trans folk face in this day and age, if someone actually says "look, I am trans, I need to be a man / woman", I think we absolutely have to respect that whether or not they can afford a therapist to back them up.
     
    #8 Just Jess, Nov 29, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2014
  9. Tai

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    Thank you for your response, it's appreciated.

    And I agree, with your last sentence especially. I didn't mean to come off as dismissing every trans person's identity just because they may not have a therapist's support.
     
  10. Just Jess

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    I don't think you did at all. I was just kind of trying to pull in different ways of looking at things. I just hope I wasn't coming across like "diagnosis is useless" because it really is not. Therapists are really great for figuring yourself out, and of course, medicine can cause problems instead of fixing them if it's not right for you.
     
  11. PlantSoul

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    I think that self-diagnosis with research is much better than seeing a therapist. I say this because, I think that it would be for the best if you knew what you were. This way, you could be prepared for questions, in case you had to see a therapist. Most LGBT supporters don't seem quite aware about the gender spectrum. Just because you see a doctor who claims to be a specialist in gender, doesn't mean that they have a deep understanding about transgenderism or other gender identities. I've heard stories about people going to doctors who insisted they were transgender even when they insisted that they weren't, and doctors telling people that they were transgender and then pressuring them into doing surgery that they never needed. It's scary when you think about it.

    2. Flexible. Gender, like sexuality, is something that shouldn't be approached with set in stone rules. I don't know what a DMAB is, so I can't help you there. Sorry, about that.