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Craving Validation from Cis Women

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Amira, Dec 12, 2014.

  1. Amira

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    I know this is really stupid and I should be able to pull the confidence to trust my own thoughts on the matter and drop my internalized transmisogyny and value my trans sisters' ideas on the subject as much if not more than cis women's.

    However, on some visceral, lonely, scared, socially-starved level, I can't shake the feeling that I'm only as valid a woman as the cis women around me agree I am. I feel like they're born with it, they live it their whole lives, who am I to presume I know better? I feel the same, even more so. How can I say that I'm a woman who loves women and that a woman who loves women can love me exactly as she'd love a cis woman. The idea that I'm intruding in spaces I always knew I wanted to belong in, taking up space with a body that these women would find repulsive or simply not female like their own body or the bodies of other women terrifies and depresses me. I don't believe I can decide that I belong to a group of people, like a gender or a sexuality, if that group doesn't see me as one of them. I've avoided making my voice heard or my presence noticed in feminist spaces and circles and I've all but completely avoided the lesbian community, because I know many cis women feel very strongly that someone like me is not and could never be one of them, and I wonder whether most cis women would to a greater or lesser degree prefer I not call myself a woman or a lesbian.

    I'm a mixed race trans woman who came out as genderqueer when i was 14 and got thrown out of my house by my family, i've been doing sex work to survive since then. I was consistently read as female up until puberty destroyed my body irreparably between age 18 and 21. I started hormones when I was 21 but the damage was done and that's four years now I've been in transition and I still feel this way. What magical truth could I possibly know about what femaleness is that I would still be right if most cis women think I'm wrong and not really female and I'm wasting their space and time and insulting them by calling myself a woman? That I really am infinitely more comfortable thinking of myself as female and a woman? Is that good enough to intrude in places and social groups that cis women don't want me to be in? And even if I am right about my own femaleness, I still couldn't bring myself to insinuate my unpleasant form and unfortunate history into places where I'm not wanted because the constant reminders that I am fundamentally rejected by cis women as a sister is too much pain to take.

    Instead I just self-impose exile so at least I'm not a nuisance.

    I don't know what I want to come of me saying this. I just want to share that this is where my head is and always has been. It's why I didn't transition at 14 even though to be a girl is what I really wanted. I just somehow knew my female friends wouldn't see me as one of them and the thought hurt too much to put myself through the reality of that kind of fundamental rejection of a big piece of my sense of self. I know I was right to get on HRT and I know it's the best thing for me to save up money for surgeries that will make my body a more comfy home for my soul but I'm pretty sure, for myself at least, that I'm doing the right thing by just not really putting myself out in the communities of women I always wanted to belong to, because being rejected so thoroughly as I'm bound to be is probably going to start messing with my head really badly after a while and carrying a dull, solitary sadness that won't inconvenience anyone by whom i would once have loved to be called "sister" is probably better for me.

    Thank you for reading my vague little story about how my mind tells me I fit into humanity and Earth and the universe. Sorry it went on longer than I had hoped. Whoever reads this is very kind to take the time to do so.
     
  2. Amira

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    yeah this was a stupid thing to share. sorry, all.
     
  3. Kasey

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    Long story short we all just want to be treated as our desired gender. I just had a cis woman ask me for the bathroom code. That was so wonderful and validating.

    But it shouldn't be. It shouldn't be an issue. But it is and take those validations as a good feeling.
     
  4. jay777

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    (*hug*)(*hug*)(*hug*)(&&&)
    It wasn't.
    Don't be sorry.
    Its helpful to write down what is on your mind. That's what this forum is for.


    There are some people within the lgbt community who are not accepting, many others are.
    Things are getting better more and more for us, more people are accepting, there are role models in the media, etc...

    (*hug*)(*hug*)(*hug*)
     
  5. Fallingdown7

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    I'm not one of those cis women that you're describing, but I do empathize that there are a lot that just don't understand and discriminate against trans women for no good reason. Sounds like you might have run into a lot of TERF people too, and they aren't well liked by me or my cis female friend groups.

    You should call yourself according to how you feel you are, and anyone who has a problem with that isn't worth your time.
     
  6. Amira

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    It's just that things stopped getting better for me after 2 years on HRT and the pariah status is permanent.

    I don't know. I'm just sad I wasn't born right, and I didn't fix things in time to be able to pretend to others that I was born right. A "male-bodied woman" is, stupidly enough, not what I aspired to be when I started transition, even though there's no way I could have been anything else.

    I don't want to be an undesirable, physically unattractive, psychologically broken walking controversy, but I will never be a sister to the women I admire.

    And it's hard to really care about anything in my life when so much was ripped out from under me before I knew what was going on. Sure there are young trans girls getting to be who they are at a wonderfully early age and some accomplished and recognized trans women but I am neither of those things. Where does everyone else's progress leave me?

    It's such a selfish thing to think but I'm the one who has to live this life at the end of the day, and it's difficult, unforgiving, depressing, and lonely. I'm happy that other trans women are doing better, but I'm not happy with what I am.

    ---------- Post added 13th Dec 2014 at 12:00 AM ----------

    Sorry for rambling. I'm kind of a complete wreck always and things are getting worse with time and trauma and isolation.
     
    #6 Amira, Dec 12, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2014
  7. Calix

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    There are plenty of people who don't transition until after puberty and they do fine :slight_smile: I wouldn't let that bother you so much. I wish I had figured it out at 15 when I first started getting mental blah but that's the past.

    You should try looking at local LGBT groups. I know you believe none of them will accept you but I believe you will find people if you look :slight_smile: And there's always us on EC ^.^
     
  8. NaomiB

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    Craving Validation from Cis Women...............

    I am a woman but not a ciswoman sorry, but if I was I would validate you as a woman and female.

    You are a her/she kiss
     
    #8 NaomiB, Dec 13, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2014
  9. Michael

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    Happens to everybody. No woman or man is an island. I've tried also to "get out of the way to avoid being a nuisance", as you said, and it made it all worse.

    When we speak the words inside our heads, they change. Don't ask me how it happens or why, all I know is that it's a human need, and it's there, same as hunger or sleep.
    You knew where the problem was since you were young. You started a fight on your own, with no support, and you should feel proud of having that courage. This world is full of cowards, female and male, you are clearly not one of them.

    For almost 30 years of my life I had no idea what the problem was, or I wasn't ready to admit it. It was too much for me. Only when I came here I finally found a lot of questions answered, and not only regarding my gender. This is a good place to be. Stay a while with us, share a piece of yourself. Feel free to hit my wall anytime. The experiences were not the same, I know, but in every post you write there is at least one feeling I've felt.
    Stay a while.
    (*hug*)
     
  10. anonym

    anonym Guest

    You shouldn't give up trying to find acceptance in a group of women. Sure, it may take a long time and a lot of perseverance but I wouldn't say it's impossible. Someone once told me here on EC that the thing people look for in others in something of themselves. I'd never really thought of it that way before. What I'm trying to say is that once people overcome their prejudices and even ignorance and get to know you a little better, they will see you for the woman that you are. You just need to find women with similar interests as yourself and let that be your starting point. Then they'll see that you're really not that different to them on the inside.
     
  11. Kasey

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    Look at me. I'm 33 and not on hormones.

    Have faith in yourself. Hormones only take you so far after puberty and can take a while to work. However there is much you can do to improve your self inflicted perception of lack of femininity.

    As I embraced myself fully I have dressed and acted way more feminine than when I first started. Are you still having issues of letting go?
     
  12. GrumpyOldLady

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    I'd give you a hug if I could, you sound like you really need one.

    I'm not exactly a typical cis woman, but I would accept you as a woman, and I'm sure there are others. They might seem hard to find, and they may not always be the people you wanted to impress, but they're worth the effort.

    I've often had a hard time fitting in myself, but I have found people who were open enough to accept me, and men who accept me as one of them, even though I still present as female. There are enough of them to enable me to ignore the rest.
     
  13. SquidwardT

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    It may not mean much but, as a cisfemale I have met trans girls who I would never have thought of as trans even if they don't pass well and even if they don't pass at all (like if they are in the closest and aren't trying) I would still consider them female if I knew and would welcome them in female spaces. And in part I do understand where you are coming from, I am bi and i sometimes don't feel like i am welcome in gay/queer spaces.
     
  14. wasgij

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    This is just my own bias, YMMV.

    A lot of cis-women out there seem to have their own social issues with image and attraction.

    Cis-women often seem to coalesce into little cliques. There are strong friendship bonds between the women, and some weaker bonds with token gay males, as well as pre-rejected beta males or boyfriends who are considered non-threatening. I've been a "beta male" in such a group. There is some social ego-stroking, but it's not altogether satisfying, and I sort of grew out of it around age 25.

    I blame cis-women but I guess my criticism also applies to many males, which is over-sensitivity to the feeling that the wrong people are attracted to you, and that it will ruin your "image". I've even caught myself doing it a couple of times.

    There was a recent social situation where I was chatting with a gay male stranger in a bar, where initially I didn't realise that he was gay. After a moment he put on a gay voice, maybe outing himself because he thought I was gay, and I felt awkward in about 3 different ways at once. I didn't want to rudely end the conversation, and I couldn't tell him "I'm not gay", implying that his voice sounded gay which could have been a completely wrong assumption. But I also sensed a possibility of social stigma, where other people around us might have started thinking that I was gay. What would the ladies think? So I can see where homophobia can sometimes begin.

    I would imagine that many cis-women might feel a similar kind of phobia towards bisexual women, tomboys and other non-binary women. Since they already have the inconvenience of having to reject lots of guys, while trying to promote an image that they're straight and available, I guess having non-binary female friends would just add to the pressure.
     
  15. Amira

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    Thank you, everyone.

    Sorry for the late response, I kind of pulled into myself for a few weeks and didn't go anywhere, canceled things with clients etc. because I was in a very bad place. I'm out of it now but things are never ~not bad~, not even at their best.

    I don't know what to do about these feelings. It seems like experiencing them is inseparable from living my life and I can't imagine the world changing for me. For younger girls who started very early, or for older women with good genetics, sure there's a shot. Not for me though. Not with what I look like. No one's gonna see me fitting into a group of 25-year-old cis women even if I've been presenting myself as female as I can for four years, so why would they ever include me?

    I do appreciate the responses and that you all cared to look at my posts. Thank you for that, and my ongoing frustration and hopelessness has nothing to do with what any of you said or didn't say.