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How is gender a social construction?

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Hats, Mar 21, 2015.

  1. Hats

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    I've read the Wikipedia entry but I still don't understand. Gender is supposed to be this inherent thing, a core part of your identity that will be so even if you're the only human left on earth. But if gender is a social construction, then that means it's learned and can be changed deliberately. I can accept that gender expression is learned because its rules vary from culture to culture, but if gender itself is learned then it doesn't make sense that people would inherently feel that they were born in the wrong body; only that they were socialised with the wrong gender roles. I'm sorry if I come across as offensive, I'm just struggling to understand what seem to me to be contradictory statements.
     
  2. CJliving

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    I think what most people mean when they say "gender is a social construction" is that the gender binary and the typical roles associated with gender are a construction. So gender is innate and it is something we are born with that would exist anyways, but without socialization it wouldn't be this ridgid thing that it is today.

    The social construct comes in when we are forced to view the world as blue and pink, and nothing else. We know gender, and even natural biological sex, don't work like this, but there's almost no evidence of that in society.
     
  3. RainDreamer

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    Gender roles are social construct.
    For example, pink things are girly. That is a social construct. Pink is just a friggin colour. A reflection of a certain spectrum of light. Yet people assign gender characteristics to it.
    Or girls can't be dominant. Or girls are emotional. Those are just stereotype created by society and perpetuated because it is considered "normal". Those are social constructs.

    But gender as who you are? Nah. You are you and society can't do anything to change it. They can change how you see yourself, how you fit in, or how you are treated, but never who you really are.
     
  4. ctrl alt delete

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    I think it comes from the phrase "one is not born a woman, one becomes a woman" which was by simone de beauvoir. Even the words man and woman are things that are made up. If you were born without any reference to them and then encountered them you would be very confused.

    when we're born we immediately start to take in information about the world around us and one of those things is that people are split into men and women. These terms quickly become a core part of our interactions with the world. If a cisperson was suddenly the last person on earth they would immediately still identify on a gendrer binary (and probably still the same way in terms of race class etc). But as they adapted I think that they would very slowly forget the old reference points and find new ones so that if they we're suddenly then introduced to society anew, they would find it hard to function.
     
    #4 ctrl alt delete, Mar 21, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2015
  5. xylaz

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    Gender is socially constructed because it's the values a culture assigns to it's people based on their sex. A man needs to be dominant, a woman obsequious. There are cultures that have varying levels of behaviors appropriate to their society based on this. It becomes ingrained. With gender you see how you're supposed to act. Sex is biologically driven, thus natural.

    Gender would be one's mentality, sex one's physical characteristics(genitals, puberty). Gender is based off the sexual dimorphism in female and male characteristics, but gender doesn't rely on a person's sex. Gender is fluid because as you can see, there are feminine men and masculine woman. Sex cannot be altered unless you do so surgically.
     
  6. Queero

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    Okay, so if you want to get all technical...

    Sex is the physical body people are born into Male, Female, Intersex, forgive me if I left any out.

    Gender is what whatever the particular society you live in wants you to do, how they expect you to behave based on what sex you are born into. This is the social construct. Things like "pink is for girls and blue is for boys", and "girls are bossy but boys are leaders" and "boys are loud and messy, girls are quiet and tidy". And on, and on, and on. They are different in different cultures.

    Gender Identity is what you identify as, for many people, this will be the same as the sex they are born into. Lucky bastards. And, for many people, it does not match up. This is also something you really cannot change.

    Gender Expression, this is the only one which you have any real control over. This is how you express. Whether you act more like what is considered "masculine" or "feminine" by your culture/society. You can identify as say, a woman, be born female, and express in a masculine way. Or nearly endless combinations. Because no one, that I know anyway, fits completely in a "masculine" or "feminine" box of what society wants people to be.
     
  7. Acm

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    Personally I think gender roles are a social construct, but gender itself is a biological innate thing.
     
  8. Foz

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    When people say that it's an assumption based upon half a statement. When sociologists began studying sexuality in humans they soon found it differs hugely from that in animals, in that our sexual behaviour whether gay or straight is very different. We enjoy sex, whereas for animals it's more functional (but guessing my the look on my dogs face when he's shagging a pillow he doesn't quite agree with that) so the thought came about that our enjoyment of sex came from something sociological. Though it is interesting to consider not only what makes people gay, but what makes people straight. Why is it that most people are straight but only some are gay and why is it not the other way round? Well it's simple really, species survival. Animals don't talk as such, but they know we have to have sex to ensure the survival of our species and that's pretty much where the sexual similarities between humans and animals ends. By definition homosexuality is bad as it removes people (and genetic qualities) from the gene pool, however that is also an outdated and almost too linear approach to the subject as it gives no consideration for the fact some people have too many kids or are not fit to have kids. How many kids would still be in care if they were not adopted by gay couples?
     
  9. NingyoBroken

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    Gender roles are a social construct. Gender isn't.
     
  10. baconpox

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    Gender roles are a social construct. People say that so people don't confuse gender with sex.
     
  11. YuriBunny

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    I don't think gender is a social construct. I think gender roles and gender stereotypes are social constructs. Like how people dress baby boys in blue and baby girls in pink...
     
  12. Just Jess

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    One thing I come to realize more and more every day is that this is a very subjective and emotional topic for people.

    To the point, the other day I got in one of the many conversations about sex and gender that seem to follow me around since I came out. It lasted quite a while until I mentioned I was sexually incompatible with straight women. He wasn't the first to get this "oh I guess this is real" tone upon hearing that. I am not of course saying you have to be sexually incompatible like that to be trans of course. But I am, and for some reason it resonates with guys. Especially ones that know I am just as incompatible with guys.No matter how well thought out my argument for my existence is, no matter how well I listen with an open changeable mind, no science, no analogy, no shared experience. None of the rational ways people test and trade ideas do me any good whatsoever. But that one does.

    So I mean, when I hear "gender is a social construct" what I really hear is "look society I am sick and tired of your FUCKING boxes". I hear "what I can't weld cause I'm a chick" or "oh liking broadway makes me a gay guy, got it". I am behind that. That "gender" IS bullshit.

    And you know folks like that, they see people like me, solving my problems a different way than they solved theirs, and it must be a head trip. If she is really a woman am I one? Why can't he just be a twink boy, we aren't so bad are we? They come to realize they have this freedom that comes with flushing their idea of gender down the toilet. And then I come along and talk about how different life is after HRT. Trans straight guys start talking about how T made them view women differently. And suddenly that happy place where this was all crap and socialized and in our heads, that safe happy place is under attack. Just by us existing and sharing parts of our lives.

    So this argument will never end. Because what we are really saying is "either you are you, or I am me". Which is silly. It isn't an either or thing. There are tons of fruits in our basket.

    So is gender social? Yes. Is it innate? Yes.

    Can I go on about exactly how that's possible? Wayback machine Cassie29 (my old name), I have practically written books, as have a lot of us, when we discover stuff about us.

    But I won't. I have tried and found a way to live my life that works. Making room for that sucks. Transition is hard. Maybe it would suck less if people understood me better. But it just is not worth feeling like I have to explain and defend myself always to get that understanding. For every oh I see, there are a dozen people I would have to start at square one with in my life.

    Gender is a word. My reality is unaffected by how you use or define it. Yes the "social construct" model has flaws. It also gets tons right. Like any model.
     
    #12 Just Jess, Mar 21, 2015
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  13. ctrl alt delete

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    I think your right, gender is a subjective experience and saying that its a social construct or that its innate misses out on a lot of real lived experience. From the viewpoint of gender activism I think that the social construct model is best for challenging peoples assumptions about other peoples experience. But its wrong and fundamentally flawed if its then used to discredit someone else's lived experience. :slight_smile:
     
  14. RainbowGreen

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    No, it's not, and frankly I find it offensive when they say that.

    If it was, then trans people wouldn't have any reason to transition, because it's only a social construct, right? Wrong, I identify as a man, no matter what society says a man should be. And, apparently, I'm far from being the only one.

    Gender roles, gender expression and all that are social constructs, gender is biological.