Mixing up my gender with my sexuality

wanderinggirl · Nov 23, 2015

I keep going back and forth about gender. I feel like it's embarrassing for me to try to be feminine, though I did it for years; I never felt pretty enough to "pull it off". I just never really felt pretty, or like I could recognize myself in the mirror. Now dressing androgynously/masculine, I feel like that tension has been alleviated; sometimes I dress femme but for the most part androgynous masculinity suits me.

I don't know whether to put this in the sexuality or the gender thread because basically this has caused serious confusion with me regarding physical intimacy. I never had problems having sex with men but I felt like I had to be so fake to attract men, and then when I thought I was gay it was such a relief because it felt like the traditional gender roles no longer applied to me. But physically things have tended to get complicated, and I'm not sure why.

So gender and sexuality have gotten really stupidly mixed up for me. I don't worry about it all the time but when it comes up I feel guilty. I don't know if I'm straight with a few female exceptions. I don't know if I have really low self-esteem or if I am genderqueer/fluid/boi. I know that most feel more attractive when they assert their femininity in some way, as did most of the people I grew up with/am around now; but I feel most attractive when I opt out of the binary.

A couple years ago, just before I fell for a woman for the first time, I slept with a close male friend. He's very attractive, though I never thought of him that way; I wound up not being super into him for one reason or another. Anyways we got drunk and hooked up and I started crying; he asked what's wrong and i couldn't voice it, but i felt like I was putting on a mask and I think the thought in my head like, "if he only knew what a freak I am inside he wouldn't have been attracted to me anymore."

I know labels aren't everything. I've given up trying to find labels. I'm just feeling very lost in the experience of feeling like my gender expression is at odds with my sexuality and there is no place for me in society. I have a significant other and things are great, but sometimes sex gets complicated and also this person is maybe slowly coming out as transmasculine as well. Which doesn't have to mean something about me, but I don't know. It does mean something to me when the sex can get so fraught.

I don't know what I'm asking for... support maybe? A reminder that gender is crap even though everyone says that and then goes and performs heteronormativity in such a natural way? Maybe just a hug?

waternation · Nov 24, 2015

I can definitely give you a big virtual hug (*hug*)

You're not alone, I can relate to several of these points. Especially these ones:

"I just never really felt pretty, or like I could recognize myself in the mirror. Now dressing androgynously/masculine, I feel like that tension has been alleviated."

"I felt like I had to be so fake to attract men"

"I know that most feel more attractive when they assert their femininity in some way, as did most of the people I grew up with/am around now; but I feel most attractive when I opt out of the binary."

And even in a past relationship with a guy sometimes similar things to this: "he asked what's wrong and i couldn't voice it, but i felt like I was putting on a mask and I think the thought in my head like, "if he only knew what a freak I am inside he wouldn't have been attracted to me anymore.""

I'm not sure what it means, but I've been trying to figure it out for a while. I know there are other females out there who feel similar to me when it comes to only feeling comfortable presenting more androgynous or male. That being/presenting 'girly' can feel like a huge act or even cross-dressing. I've thought of non binary identities before. Gender is something that still confuses me. The thing is that I know that I don't desire to change my body and I don't really care much about anything else. I don't think I would care tomorrow if I woke up as a girl or a guy. So I just be me and wear what I want and be how I want and don't worry about much else. It was hard to even take that step though.

I feel very indifferent about being female, and maybe you're the same? I'm not sure... I kind of give up on labels too... So maybe I'm not the best person for advice in that way too.

wanderinggirl · Nov 24, 2015

waternation said: ↑

I can definitely give you a big virtual hug (*hug*)

You're not alone, I can relate to several of these points. Especially these ones:

"I just never really felt pretty, or like I could recognize myself in the mirror. Now dressing androgynously/masculine, I feel like that tension has been alleviated."

"I felt like I had to be so fake to attract men"

"I know that most feel more attractive when they assert their femininity in some way, as did most of the people I grew up with/am around now; but I feel most attractive when I opt out of the binary."

And even in a past relationship with a guy sometimes similar things to this: "he asked what's wrong and i couldn't voice it, but i felt like I was putting on a mask and I think the thought in my head like, "if he only knew what a freak I am inside he wouldn't have been attracted to me anymore.""

I'm not sure what it means, but I've been trying to figure it out for a while. I know there are other females out there who feel similar to me when it comes to only feeling comfortable presenting more androgynous or male. That being/presenting 'girly' can feel like a huge act or even cross-dressing. I've thought of non binary identities before. Gender is something that still confuses me. The thing is that I know that I don't desire to change my body and I don't really care much about anything else. I don't think I would care tomorrow if I woke up as a girl or a guy. So I just be me and wear what I want and be how I want and don't worry about much else. It was hard to even take that step though.

I feel very indifferent about being female, and maybe you're the same? I'm not sure... I kind of give up on labels too... So maybe I'm not the best person for advice in that way too.
Click to expand...

Thanks!! Yeah it's weird like I know there's something different about me from other women, even among my very open-minded group of friends, so I don't think it's about not conforming to traditional femininity. Yes, women come in all flavors, but our society is very very binary so I feel tension with that. As to the bolded/italicized part in your response: Yes! It's a huge and difficult step just to be you. I've been struggling with it a lot. I'm overwhelmed right now trying to pack for the holiday: I don't want to dress girly but I don't want to look too "visible"/masculine, and it does feel like I have to choose one or the other. My suitcase looks overwhelming to me right now.

About indifference to being female: yeah, basically. I mean, there are some aspects of femaleness I really connect to, I decorate my apartment and I sew and I knit and I cook, all things I learned from my mom; but I also don't physically connect with how I'm supposed to see myself, if that makes sense. Anyways thanks for the rambles and relating where you can. Cool.

waternation · Nov 24, 2015

wanderinggirl said: ↑

Thanks!! Yeah it's weird like I know there's something different about me from other women, even among my very open-minded group of friends, so I don't think it's about not conforming to traditional femininity. Yes, women come in all flavors, but our society is very very binary so I feel tension with that. As to the bolded/italicized part in your response: Yes! It's a huge and difficult step just to be you. I've been struggling with it a lot. I'm overwhelmed right now trying to pack for the holiday: I don't want to dress girly but I don't want to look too "visible"/masculine, and it does feel like I have to choose one or the other. My suitcase looks overwhelming to me right now.

About indifference to being female: yeah, basically. I mean, there are some aspects of femaleness I really connect to, I decorate my apartment and I sew and I knit and I cook, all things I learned from my mom; but I also don't physically connect with how I'm supposed to see myself, if that makes sense. Anyways thanks for the rambles and relating where you can. Cool.
Click to expand...

You're welcome Thanks for sending me a friend request too^^ Oh yeah, society is very binary. Boys are associated with 'blue' and girls are associated with 'pink', and the same sort of fake oppositions can be applied in a lot of other different ways by society's standards too.

:lol: My wardrobe has changed a lot in the last year, and now it is filled with guys jeans, a mix of unisex shirts and shorts and a couple scoop and v-neck shirts. I'm going away soon too, but packing now is kind of easy because everything sort of matches but my wardrobe before was a mix of skirts and things that I felt less comfortable in and the kind of clothing I wear now, so I understand.

I'm never really sure if there are female things I can connect to I know that I feel female I guess, or indifferent, but like you said, it doesn't feel like an experience that most other women, trans or cis, have. It's all just so 'meh', and occasionally uncomfortable, and weird to be female. I don't know.

I wonder if it would be normal for a cis person not to care about what body they had, male or female, and that confuses me too. Because if you didn't, would that mean that you are non-binary of some sort? Ahh, it's all confusing. I think of my gender kind of as: female bodied but don't care. But female's kind of easier, isn't it? :eusa_doh: Gender is something I just don't really get, and I don't really feel one way or the other most of the time but sometimes there is a sort of unknown frustration that I think goes beyond just gender roles and conformity...

Anyway, thank you for your original post too

DreamerBoy17 · Nov 24, 2015

Wow, I also send you an Internet hug. (*hug*)
Honestly, to me, it sounds like this more of a gender role/gender expression thing rather than gender itself. Femininity isn't defined by pretty dresses or make up or anything. It's how you feel inside, how you identify with your body. Do you have dysphoria at all?
However things turn out, I hope you can be happy with yourself.

wanderinggirl · Nov 30, 2015

EmOfSuburbia said: ↑

Wow, I also send you an Internet hug. (*hug*)
Honestly, to me, it sounds like this more of a gender role/gender expression thing rather than gender itself. Femininity isn't defined by pretty dresses or make up or anything. It's how you feel inside, how you identify with your body. Do you have dysphoria at all?
However things turn out, I hope you can be happy with yourself.
Click to expand...

You're right. All the stuff you said. Thanks for your response.

---------- Post added 30th Nov 2015 at 10:48 PM ----------

waternation said: ↑

You're welcome Thanks for sending me a friend request too^^ Oh yeah, society is very binary. Boys are associated with 'blue' and girls are associated with 'pink', and the same sort of fake oppositions can be applied in a lot of other different ways by society's standards too.

:lol: My wardrobe has changed a lot in the last year, and now it is filled with guys jeans, a mix of unisex shirts and shorts and a couple scoop and v-neck shirts. I'm going away soon too, but packing now is kind of easy because everything sort of matches but my wardrobe before was a mix of skirts and things that I felt less comfortable in and the kind of clothing I wear now, so I understand.

I'm never really sure if there are female things I can connect to I know that I feel female I guess, or indifferent, but like you said, it doesn't feel like an experience that most other women, trans or cis, have. It's all just so 'meh', and occasionally uncomfortable, and weird to be female. I don't know.

I wonder if it would be normal for a cis person not to care about what body they had, male or female, and that confuses me too. Because if you didn't, would that mean that you are non-binary of some sort? Ahh, it's all confusing. I think of my gender kind of as: female bodied but don't care. But female's kind of easier, isn't it? :eusa_doh: Gender is something I just don't really get, and I don't really feel one way or the other most of the time but sometimes there is a sort of unknown frustration that I think goes beyond just gender roles and conformity...

Anyway, thank you for your original post too
Click to expand...

You're welcome.

I'm with you on a general anger about femininity vs masculinity and what it means to be female. It just makes me frustrated. And I think of all the things I would do if I were a man. That's not the same as actually needing to identify as/be seen as male for my own mental health. It's all one big social construct and there are times I want to change myself so badly within that social structure but other times when I don't so much.

How does it feel to dress in menswear? How does it change your relationship with your body?

waternation · Nov 30, 2015

Well, it feels... a lot more natural, that's for sure. I've mentioned in another post I made in the gender forum a while ago that wearing dresses and stuff feels like cross-dressing to me (which doesn't really make sense? :/) and that sort of feminine stuff feels a lot more uncomfortable... I don't feel like myself in it.

...I'm not sure how it changes my relationship with my body, to be honest. I'm not sure if I feel more comfortable because of the clothing and just because of how it looks, or because of how it makes my body look. There are times when I use sports bras to bind as well, and I feel super comfortable doing that. I'm pretty flat chested (tmi? :lol: idk) but if I wear a push-up bra or have my chest that obvious or visible I get a really weird feeling too.

What are your experiences with dressing masculine vs feminine??

Mixing up my gender with my sexuality

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Mixing up my gender with my sexuality

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