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Hey hey, guess who sucks at figuring out gender identity?

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by curryander, Dec 29, 2015.

  1. curryander

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    Me! That's right, I seriously suck at introspection and I am seeking your opinion on whether I should transition to male or stick with being an annoyingly feminine butch. I'm a fan of lists, so maybe that'll help.

    Reasons for remaining butch female:

    - I have mostly been a feminine child. I am interested in traditional feminine things and also masculine things.
    - Even though I have severe top dysphoria, I know that butches sometimes experience this as well. I could, instead of getting a diagnosis of gender dysphoria to get top surgery, get a reduction and wear a binder (my boobs are giant and binders right now would be pointless)
    - I do have flashes of doubt about being male. Sometimes I think it would be nice to be all sexy in a dress and makeup before realizing that I would be really uncomfortable in that getup.
    - I really like being a butch lesbian (I'm actually bisexual, but shh). The community is awesome, and I love being a gay woman. I just don't know if I like being a woman.
    - My biggest issue is I don't mind being a woman, I just wish I could look, pass, socialize, and be thought of as a man.
    - Sometimes I even want to be a woman, long haired and outdoorsy, like one of those mountain-living hipsters. But I don't think that's me. I hated having long hair and love the convenience and masculinity of short hair.

    Reasons for transitioning to a trans man:

    - Even though I dressed femininely as a kid, I have never felt as though I lived up to the feminine ideal. I liked traditionally male colours, had a major tomboy phase, and cut my hair short as soon as I was allowed.
    - I have always wanted to be one of the guys. If it was a boys v. girls school game, I always wanted to be on the guys' side. Always. I never fit in with the girls until middle school and then I had a nice co-ed and queer group to hang with.
    - From an early age, if someone gave me something stereotypically female, I would be pissed. I remember vehemently hating a frilly photo shoot and being mad when being given different coloured objects than men. Medieval times fair came about in fourth grade and I was a knight.
    - I hate, hate, hate being called any sort of lady, ma'am, miss, girl, etc. I would prefer male pronouns for everything. It makes me super mad when someone refers to me as "one of the girls", and I always feel weird at get-togethers where the sexes are divided.
    - For as long as I can remember, I have been saying things like "I want to be a boy" and "why couldn't I have been born a guy?". I looked up to teenage boys and wanted to be like them. I wanted to dress like them, be able to rough-house, and be a big brother to my sister. It kind of jarred me when puberty hit and I wasn't like one of those guys I had wanted to be.
    - Speaking of puberty, screw that. I became more self-conscious than ever, which I realize most everyone goes through. However, I was really uncomfortable in my new role as a "woman". Even though I had been excited at first for my boobs to grow in, as soon as they became noticeable, I cowered.
    - Literally, it just makes my day if someone perceives me as male. I will be glowing for weeks. My friend once told me that I would make a terrible guy and I was bummed for days after.
    - I have given more thought than I should to researching transition options. I lay awake for almost an entire night from the realization that I would never be happy be seen as a woman.
    - Rain Dove, sans the boobs, is my dream self.

    Since I am attracted to both men and women, I worry that I am not separating "who I am attracted to" from "who I want to be". I'm more attracted to women than men, but I worry if I transition to male that I wouldn't be able to date more masculine and butch women, who are typically lesbian. Also, I'm okay with being a woman, so long as I look like a man, am seen as a man, and am treated like a man.

    So what do you guys think? I have no idea how to get in touch with a gender therapist because I am a minor for months yet, have no credit card, and no car. This gender stuff is really annoying because I'm so stressed about not wanting to be a girl that it's now hard for me to concentrate on school (I have never ever had this problem before). So... advice? Thanks.
     
  2. noname8387

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    We are sort of in the same boat but in reverse, I have wanted long hair all my life, why do you want short hair? I want hair that when I turn I slap the bitch in the face, I can do a hair flip when I do something cool, and that when I'm walking flows in with the air like Beyoncé.
     
  3. FoxEars

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    You sound like someone who's gender fluid (sometimes preferring male and other times preferring female). You might fit in with gender neutral but I'm leaning towards gender fluid on this one.
     
  4. InfinityonHigh

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    Actually I think you might be a trans guy or transmasculine, but I can't say there's no bias because I'm a trans guy myself.

    Let's get this out there right now: Gender identity ≠ Gender expression Which means that your interests and how you dress does not define your gender identity.

    Self doubts are common for many trans people (myself included). It's easy to doubt yourself when the entire world is saying the opposite of what you see yourself as.

    You said you had top dysphoria so that more or less says that you're trans of some sort. having dysphoria about secondary sexual characteristics typically associated with your assigned gender is almost an exclusively trans thing.

    Your "Reasons for transitioning to a trans man" part sounds very typical for many trans men, and it's relatable even for myself. You wouldn't be happy with being perceived as male if you were female. None of what you described was a cis thing to do. I strongly recommend you take this part very seriously.
     
  5. Just Jess

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    How about just keeping it a "?" for a while?
     
  6. optionthree

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    I'm not going to tell you what you are, because that isn't healthy. What I will tell you is that every point you made for being female had a counterpoint on the end, as if you were doubting ; every male point was alone, no buts our insecurities. You seem quite sure of yourself.
     
    #6 optionthree, Dec 30, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2015
  7. baconpox

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    Butches don't typically have really bad top dysphoria. I'd recommend keeping a journal about how tou feel day to day, so you can be looking at youe emotions in a concrete way. If you only have top dysphoria, I'd guess you're not trans but if you have dysphoria elsewhere I'd find it more probable. Also think about how you feel about your chest: Do you have a disconnect? Is it just hatrid? If you don't have a disconnect, it's more likely dysmorphia than dysphoria.
     
  8. curryander

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    I am super low maintenance and I suck at traditionally feminine hairstyles. I can do a ponytail, the worst braid you have ever seen in your life, and if I have an hour I can manage a messy bun. Plus, I remember when I came home after cutting my locks for cancer and my sister told me I looked like a boy. I pretended to be mad, but I was quite pleased internally. Hence the short hair.

    ---------- Post added 30th Dec 2015 at 11:29 PM ----------

    Interesting point, and I love the journal idea, but I do know that some trans people don't experience bottom dysphoria. I don't mind my parts as they are, though I'd prefer male genitals. If someone asked me today if I would like a fully functional, fully grown penis, I could hardly turn that down!

    My relationship with my chest is like I'd imagine I'd feel if I had a really regrettable face tattoo that someone forced me to get. It's always visible, always there, even if I try to cover it up, and it's a constant reminder of something that isn't me. There have been days where I feel sick just thinking about going about my day with a noticeable bulge in my chest. I try not to think about my boobs as much as possible, because I end up very anxious and distressed when I think about how limited my options for removing them are. I generally love my body, but my boobs were a really unnecessary addition.
     
  9. darkcomesoon

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    I'm going to take your list (and the other things you've said) and take out all the stuff that doesn't actually define or strongly relate to gender (like hairstyles and clothes).

    Reasons for remaining butch female:
    - Even though I have severe top dysphoria, I know that butches sometimes experience this as well. [it's not particularly common, but it does happen]
    - I really like being a butch lesbian (I'm actually bisexual, but shh). The community is awesome, and I love being a gay woman. I just don't know if I like being a woman.
    - My biggest issue is I don't mind being a woman

    Reasons for transitioning to a trans man:
    - I have always wanted to be one of the guys. If it was a boys v. girls school game, I always wanted to be on the guys' side. [this happens for cis tomboys too, but it is very common for trans children to instinctively sort themselves into the group that corresponds to their actual gender]
    - From an early age, if someone gave me something stereotypically female, I would be pissed. I remember vehemently hating a frilly photo shoot and being mad when being given different coloured objects than men. Medieval times fair came about in fourth grade and I was a knight. [this has to do with gender expression, not gender, but young trans children often do want to fit in with others of their gender, so they will reject the clothes and roles of the other gender like cis children often do; it's not super compelling, because cis tomboys often also hate things that are stereotypically female, but I left it in]
    - I hate, hate, hate being called any sort of lady, ma'am, miss, girl, etc. I would prefer male pronouns for everything. It makes me super mad when someone refers to me as "one of the girls", and I always feel weird at get-togethers where the sexes are divided.
    - For as long as I can remember, I have been saying things like "I want to be a boy" and "why couldn't I have been born a guy?". I looked up to teenage boys and wanted to be like them. I wanted to dress like them, be able to rough-house, and be a big brother to my sister. It kind of jarred me when puberty hit and I wasn't like one of those guys I had wanted to be.
    - Speaking of puberty, screw that. I became more self-conscious than ever, which I realize most everyone goes through. However, I was really uncomfortable in my new role as a "woman". Even though I had been excited at first for my boobs to grow in, as soon as they became noticeable, I cowered.
    - Literally, it just makes my day if someone perceives me as male. I will be glowing for weeks. My friend once told me that I would make a terrible guy and I was bummed for days after.
    - I have given more thought than I should to researching transition options. I lay awake for almost an entire night from the realization that I would never be happy be seen as a woman.
    - I just wish I could look, pass, socialize, and be thought of as a man.
    - If someone asked me today if I would like a fully functional, fully grown penis, I could hardly turn that down!

    I'm not going to tell you what you are, nor am I going to tell you what I think you are. But take a look at the list of the things you said. What does it sound like to you? If someone else said these things, what would you think their gender was? Do/es the label/s you came up with from answering those questions feel right for you?
     
    #9 darkcomesoon, Jan 1, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2016
  10. curryander

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    Hey, Jesse. Thanks for the updated list! I guess when you look at it like that, it's very revealing. Sort of cleared some things up for me.

    Since I reach the age of majority in my country in a couple of months, I think it would be worthwhile to find a gender therapist in my region... which means that I'll likely be coming out to people other than my uni's admissions office. That'll be a lark.

    Thank you and everyone who has commented on this thread.