Gender - Biological, Social Construct, Or What?

I think it's a little of everything. It's such a complex concept!

It's obvious that there's a social element - the existence of more and different genders across cultures proves there's certainly more to gender than the western male/female binary. And the idea of gendered behaviours and interests is almost definitely completely social! No aspect of personality or thing someone likes is innately linked to a specific gender.

But at the same time, gender itself doesn't seem to be 100% social at all. Non-trans kids raised contrary to their assigned sex seem to grow up with what is most easily described as dysphoria, from what I've read at least, they know on some level that they're not the gender they've been told they are and it sucks for them. And the fact that a large number of trans people were sure of their gender from an early age points to an innate sense of gender as well.

But it doesn't seem to be the case for everyone, so it gets...really complicated.

Honestly, I try not to think about it too much! I am, sadly, not a person well versed in gender science, and I tend to just end up getting introspective - is my weird experience of gender born from some innate Gender Weirdness, or have I just decided to be this way or been conditioned into being this way?

It's never a good ride, haha.

But when it comes to my personal opinion on what makes gender, I think that in short it's a bit of everything.

 

To make short, like the amount of time I have to write this...

I believe there are parts of gender that are largely biological. After all, if we got rid of all gender roles and social expectations of gender there would still be transgender people around. Which would mean that gender has some roots in biology.

That being said, I think how we precieve gender, such as gender roles and expressions, are largly a social construct.

So gender is a mix of the two

 

I find gender to be more of a social construct. Sex is the term I use as a biological construct. Most people think of them as the same thing, but I find there to be a difference between the two. I feel that society created genders in order to be effective. In a survival sense, biological females are more geared to be the nurturers and caregivers whereas men were supposed to be the protectors and hunters. I ran cross country for a while, and men are generally the faster runners. However, our world has changed so that these biological roles aren't as prevalent.

That being said, society finds women to be better teachers and nurses mainly because they're expected to raise their own children to be healthy and educated. Men are generally suited more for tasks in construction and anything that require heavy-lifting. Society wants to be as effective as possible, and that's why I think gender roles were instituted. However, there are plenty more jobs out there so society can function. Men can be caregivers as well because there isn't any hunting to really be done. Women can be strong and fast and can get a job that relies on physical well-being.

This is everything I've thought about so far. I'm still trying to work out how trans people fit into this idea. If anyone has anything to say or add, I'm willing to listen.

 

I agree with that.

 

Really, sex is the part that is largely biological. That being said though, there are some social influences on it. A good example of this is corrective surgery that is preformed on intersex infants. Sometimes, this is done without the parents being informed. They are trying to have the babies fit within the social/biological role of the binary sexes.

Now gender is primarily a social construct. The way that many see it though is based on what genitals they think you have. In reality, it is really based on gender roles and how a person looks. This is why when a person is not within the "boundaries" of masculine and feminine, they can be mocked by society. It's also why many are obsessed over what gentiles a transgender person has.

 

Physical dysphoria is biological. The social roles and labels are social constructs.

 

I agree completely. (*hug*)

Gender dysphoria is something that is completely separate from gender identity as a social construct. A person can identify as whatever they want and still suffer from gender dysphoria caused by being born in the wrong body. These arguments about whether or not gender is a social construct are completely meaningless as they have nothing to do with what we are going through and why we have to transition and change everything about us and hurt those that we love just to be able to live without suffering every day of our lives.

 

I think Brad did a good job of breaking this down.

Me personally, I do think that gender (in the way it's defined sociologically) and the gender binary are social constructs, but that doesn't negate the fact that many people are harmed by these social constructs, including women, people of color, transgender and non-binary individuals, and more.

 

Sorry, I was wrong to say that. :icon_redf

I guess I need a bit longer before I am in the right state of mind to write again .

 

The fact women are not expected to be engineers is a social construct. Many female engineers successfully challenge that construct by doing their job as well as men do.

Someone who risk basically everything important in life to live as something else than their birth sex is not doing it because gender role is not something they like. They do it because of a clearly medical, innate need to not be male/female and change it. I am quite happy with a lot of my male gender ROLE, but not with such gender IDENTITY.

Claiming that gender is a construct is as harmful as claiming sexual orientation is not innate.

Gender identity is not a construct. Gender roles, are not so much of a construct either - the harmful thing about gender roles is that they are enforced. So even if most women fall into certain stereotypes, that doesn't mean all have to be that way. In this sense, you can argue (successfuly), that a concept of a gender role is redundant because people are too different.

But this very personal thing we mostly discuss here, gender identity, is not a construct. All trans people were "constructed" to "become" as their birth sex and it kinda didn't work... because of medical facts about transgenderism, that gender which is independent from how we were raised.

 

Gender is entirely biological, it's gender roles that are socially constructed

 

I think making up your mind about it all isn't really as helpful a goal as continuing to learn more about it. What's the benefit to knowing how much is nature and how much is nurture? Either way you're you, and the way you experience the world isn't something you can control. We can't raise people to be trans on purpose, or make them not trans if they are, and trans people definitely do exist. I think though there is a lot of benefit to learning about sex and about gender, especially for us that experience problems because of them, so that we can better deal with those problems we do have that are keeping us from living the sort of life those without those problems can take for granted.

 

I mean, the majority of women are gonna be "softer" than men based purely on biology. Not only are we weaker phyisically but we have less testosterone and a number of rather dehabilitating life processes (periods and pregnancy).

In a primative society the men are going to be hunting and the women staying at home because whether we actually like looking after children or not we'd rather they didn't die, so we better do it, because it only makes sense for the stronger people to go hunting. And the men would have dominance over women based on physical strength alone.

In modern society, gender is pretty much a construct that makes those natural factors into charactures of themselves. This happens differently in different cultures based on their history. For example, I think Japan used to have some female emporers until one was pretty evil so they banned that, and men used to be expected to be bisexual until they were heavily criticised for it by the west during the 19th century or something, and so you end up with a society with strict gender roles that mirror the West by the 20th century (imagine how weird and cool it would be if Japan was a country ruled by a woman where bisexuality was normal...). And the West itself... I don't have so many elaborate theories for but definitely things like high powered jobs going to men is just a construct that grew from natural male dominance into areas where their physical dominance is not even relevant.

So yeah, its a contruct based loosley on some biological factors and cultural heritage.

 

While Estrogen and Testosterone do bring about physical and emotional changes, the effects are not as drastic as to explain the binary gender system that developed in society. Beyond the intinsic sense of being that makes people know that they are women and men which fairly clearly originates in biology and is separate from biological sex, there are most likely patterns of inherent insincts and traits that are we are preprogrammed with and that our influenced by some innate gender. Otherwise there would be cultures and societies in which women and men never developed into the more binary system of gender that all modern societies adhere to.

Yes, there is a huge amount of variation in how people develop and in the manifestation of these internal instincts which is heavily influenced by social conditioning but that doesn't mean that gender is purely socially constructed. If it all just came down to hormones than realistically speaking HRT would be much more common in society. What is stopping women from judt taking testosterone and becoming men? Trans men do it, why don't ciswomen, especially those who are infertile, simply take a tablet and enjoy all the benefite of male privilage. You would think that at least some would consider such an option if gender was nothing but a social construct. Yet I don't know of any group of testosterone enhanced women that advocate taking testosterone to bridge the gap between men and women. It turns out that having a male body isn't that appealing when you are intrinsically female and the reality is closer to being more of a nightmare. Trans women often suffer for most of their lives because they are stuck in the wrong bodies and there is a sense of relief so huge when we acknowledge who we really are and start transitioning that it drives us forward despite the large amount of pain, discomfort, shame, financial cost, prejudice and social rejection that pretty much all of us go through to some extent when we transition. Remarkably enough pretty much all those who transition fully are happy that they did so and would give anything to not go back to who they once was. There is much more to being male and female than simply physiological sex and social conditioning and when you claim otherwise you are both invalidating the sense of self and being of all women and the struggles of trans men and women who go through so much to just feel at home in their bodies.

 

Hijra is just another word for being transgender in those societies. I meant more in the sense of there being a clear differentiation between men and women. If gender was nothing but a social construct. There would be logically speaking societies in which gender didn't exist as the society never went through the same process of gender construction or women and men dynamics were at the very least drastically different. While globalization has heavily influenced our ability to connect with people all over the world. Throughout history there was very little contact between civilizations in different continents. Yet despite this, gender took on the same form in societies that had no contact with each other. This clearly points to gender having an innate side to it that guides the development of people and the dynamics between genders.

 

Well yes if a ciswoman tried going on T and became a man she wouldn't like it at all. Mostly because it would just feel weird to change like that. Humans don't like change, it would just freak her out to loose her female features because they were part of her...

I said gender is a social construct, yes, but actually feeling dysphoric about your body is a different thing... Like... Couldn't I be a transguy and have so much dysphoria and be doing HRT but want to wear pink dresses and makeup and like... bake sweet strawberry flavoured cakes with roses on them while singing Taylor Swift songs... just as a person with male features? The fact that I probably wouldn't is because social constructs tell me that behaviour would just not fit the body I felt at home in.