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Is it normal to want "it" pronouns?

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Delta, Mar 1, 2016.

  1. Delta

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    So I was reading a book about a gender fluid kid (Symptoms of Being Human) and there was a piece where people whispering about the kid said, "What is it?" In reference to their gender, and I think the author was intending that to feel insulting or rude, but I just got this sense of "that. that is what I would like to be. If nothing was holding me back, that." Like, I would really like to have it pronouns. I just really like the present day English neuter singular pronoun, because it doesn't make me something I'm not, and it doesn't seem out of place in conversation. If anything, it demands much less focus to use because it's how we refer to most things, so it just seems to flow.

    And I don't know if I should feel weird about that. Other people would probably feel weird about that.
     
    #1 Delta, Mar 1, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2016
  2. H20

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    I'm more of an open-minded person so others' opinions may differ from mine, however, I don't think wanting the It pronoun weird at all. In fact I've heard about it maybe two or three times that some non-binary folks do prefer them, it's just uncommon. The reason for that is because It can be very insulting and degrading to a transgender person due to people being uncomfortable with someone being trans so they refer to them as it because they don't get it. How I see it though is that while I personally would not prefer It, I wouldn't judge anyone from it because I also don't want to be called She or Her anymore. SO for me those two pronouns would be regarded the same - they're just not meant for me and that doesn't mean they aren't meant for someone else.

    It will definitely be confusing for other people around you, although I think it'd be hard to avoid the pronoun It since people do use that word to describe everything one way or another. But it simply just comes down to your own preferences. If it feels like you, if it feels right, then maybe it's the choice to go. You seem pretty certain about this.
     
  3. Delta

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    I'm doubting my own feelings a lot, though. I just feel like if I follow my heart it's going to end up getting me into trouble. I have a lot of anxiety and depression, so I spend a great deal of my time confused about the best choice for myself.:eusa_thin
     
    #3 Delta, Mar 2, 2016
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  4. H20

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    As someone else who suffers from anxiety and depression, I truly do understand where you're coming from. Sometimes you feel like you've finally grasped an idea just perfect for you then you begin to have doubts. Unfourtnately, like everything else, it takes time.

    If you're worried that following your heart might get you into trouble, try to figure out why. How would you get into trouble? What kind of trouble? Does that sound reasonable or just nagging doubts/fears? Oftentimes it's the simplest things we overlook that give us the answers. However, you could always just refer to yourself as It for a little bit - either verbally to the mirror or talking in third-person or just in your head. See if you get the feel of it. (The ironic thing is that my advice might not be the best because I myself am actually about to go post a new thread about pronouns sooo... who knows. When it comes to ourselves, it just confusing. When it comes to other people, it's like you have a great idea of what to tell them. Ya know?)
     
  5. Rain is Love

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    I really don't like "it" as a pronoun.

    "It" is used to discuss "items" and "things" this day in age.

    He and she, are commonly used as perspective of how masculine or feminine you are.

    He and she are terms to describe people, you can correct people you associate with on what you preferred. Now if someone you know talks about you, they can say he or she and the people they are speaking to will not question them for saying it.

    Saying "it" is used to describe an item or is used to insult transgendered people. Now that you corrected all your friends into saying something grammatically uncomfortable, what do they say when talking about you to people you don't know? If they call you an it, it will come off as disrespectful or awkward. They may even have to try and explain why they are saying it, it's just uncomfortable to the English language.

    I would suggest you having a preference or being okay with he or she. That or find a better word that translates as a gender neutral pronoun.

    Just my take on it, you do you.
     
    #5 Rain is Love, Mar 2, 2016
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  6. Delta

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    I think I'm partly feeling subconsciously aware of all the subtle privileges of being cisgender that I give up a little more of every time I do something that makes me feel right about myself. It's almost like... Ignoring it and only bringing it out in private worked for so long, maybe if I just keep that up for the rest of my life it'll all be fine.:eusa_sile

    ---------- Post added 2nd Mar 2016 at 12:54 AM ----------

    I feel that discomfort from "they," though. They holds all that social/explanation bulk, but also sounds clunky to me in use. And I just don't have any resonance with any of the pronouns in the vein of ze. I just haven't really gotten a feeling like this with any other neutral pronoun, and I'm kinda tired of it and stressed by my pronouns gendering me as something I don't want people to see me as.
     
  7. H20

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    It's not good to keep things bottled up. If your safety isn't an issue, and if you're comfortable with discussing this and correcting people, then that's what you should do. This is a big deal though, so don't make hasty decisions and while Rain is Love does make a good point on the awkwardness your friends/family might have if calling you by It, you should be doing what makes you happy. Besides, if they're uncomfortable with it, they'd probably use your current pronouns in place of that and just call you It in private, which would be better than none at all. Yeah, cisgender people have more priviledge, but just giving up only diminishes our own priviledge and proves that they're right. If you need more neutral pronouns however, there are they / them / their and a few variants of xe.
     
  8. Rain is Love

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    Tried finding an English gender neutral word that's not referring to a group of people.

    "
    In some West Country dialects, the pronoun er can be used in place of either he or she, although only in weak (unstressed) positions such as in tag questions.[6]
    " https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-specific_and_gender-neutral_pronouns

    Not sure if you would like that, er would come off more smoothly than just using improper grammar. It's also common to default to masculine words in Latin languages.

    If you like "it" then go for it. I just know personally, I would never use it and would make extra sentence just to avoid "it".
     
    #8 Rain is Love, Mar 2, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2016
  9. baconpox

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    I've heard of people doing it. Call yourself whatever you want, just be cautious when asking other people to call you that because a lot of people are uncomfortable calling other people it.
     
  10. Reciprocal

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    I don't mind "it" pronouns really. For me it means something without a gender, rather than an inanimate object.
     
  11. Irisviel

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    I would be quite uncomfortable talking about someone and using "it". Simply because I would come across as homophobe/transphobe.

    Also, "it" is very closely tied to the grammar. It is hard to use it in a sentence without sounding awkward, and it is well exemplified by this sentence. It's just... "I went to the cinema with my friend and it was very happy to see the film" sounds like the cinema was happy - that's because our brains are wired through conditioning that "it" means things, not people. Or, "Alex kissed John, and it felt wonderful". Did Alex feel wonderful? John? Or, as grammar suggests, the act of kissing felt that way?

    I don't have anything against the idea, but it just seems too problematic to use. I'm just not sure if the cons do not outweigh the pros.
     
    #11 Irisviel, Mar 2, 2016
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  12. Kira

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    Well, a lot of people seem to ignore the rather useful "singular they", as in "They're sitting right there" Rather than "He/she's sitting right there" It's used more often when someone's gender isn't disclosed but still works. Don't know if you knew about that but I'd much prefer "they" over "it".
     
  13. DemiLiHue

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    I don't mind, but it's confusing! How about those pronouns that where used since 1990 something, like ey/em or e/em? It has several grammar problems... But sit actually cool. I use it sometimes with my friends!
     
  14. darkcomesoon

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    "It" pronouns are frequently used to dehumanize trans people. They make a lot of trans people wildly uncomfortable, so at the very least, you would need to have an auxiliary set for people to use.

    Honestly, I don't like people using "it" pronouns unless they are truly reclaiming them. If you already feel 100% comfortable with them, I don't think you're in a position to be reclaiming them. If you do not fully and truly understand the history and implications of calling a trans person "it", I don't think you're in a position to be reclaiming them.
     
    #14 darkcomesoon, Mar 3, 2016
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  15. Mr Spock

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    My personal feelings... I would rather be dehumanized than called "she" or "ma'am". It is kind of considered jolting vocabulary however, and I think "they" would be a lot easier to get people to say.
     
  16. SHACH

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    I think it's good to go with what you feel is right but... I would definitely cringe every time I was calling you "it". It really does sound like I'm insulting you constantly... I mean "it" isn't just used to insult trans people, its used to degrade people into objects/monsters/oddities in all circumstances. Like the horror movie "it" - the whole implication of it is that the character is a freak and a monster. A father in a period drama who's wife gave birth to a deformed baby, refused to acknowledge and take home the child and called him "it" to make a point of his disgust. Yeah, I would definitely feel like an asshole calling you "it". And as Kira said, people use "they" in the singular all the time, it flows pretty well and is probably a better choice if you're looking to choose from traditional pronouns.