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Androgynous?

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Chinaski, Mar 10, 2016.

  1. Chinaski

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    I'm female. Biologically anyway. I've never felt like a woman and I've never really thought of myself as a woman. However, I haven't really felt like a man either. When for example filling out forms I tick the box that says "female" because that's what I am, but I don't really feel female. I'm not female in my mind. In my mind I'm some kind of mixture between male and female. Or rather, I don't really feel like I have a gender. I'm not female and I'm not male. I'm just me. Does that make sense? It's difficult to explain.

    I know I've felt like this since childhood. I remember walking to school (when I was 13 or so) thinking "I don't feel like a girl" and "I wish I was a boy". I also remember getting really happy when someone misgendered me and thought I was a boy when I was 9 or 10. Now I don't really mind being a woman (except for the fact that I don't like having breasts) but I still don't feel like a woman in my mind.

    I've always been a bit of a tomboy and I'm still not particularly feminine. I feel some kind of pressure to be feminine (I know that's what other people want) but I don't really want to be. Well, sometimes I do. Argh. I don't know.

    Is this what it means to be androgynous?
     
    #1 Chinaski, Mar 10, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2016
  2. DemiLiHue

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    Well, it does really sound like you are nonbinary! Just find the label that feels right.
    I'm gonna try summarize some, ok?
    Androgyne: between male and female

    Agender: no gender

    Neutrois, or gender neutral: has a gender, but that gender is not similar in any way with any other gender (similar to Agender)
    Bigender: having two genders (nonbinary or not)

    Third gender: really self explanatory

    Genderqueer: similar to nonbinary

    Demigender: having a gender. Just not entirely. (Me, for example)
     
    #2 DemiLiHue, Mar 10, 2016
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  3. Aberrance

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    Androgynous tends to be a word describing how someone looks. For example I identify as FTM (transguy) but people see me as looking androgynous externally (because I don't pass well).

    It sounds like you're non-binary which describes any gender not fully male or female. I'd consider doing research into non-binary genders and see if any fit how you feel. The above poster mentioned a few but looking on YouTube and seeing peoples experience with their gender, being able to relate it to your own experiences can really help if you're confused.
     
  4. RocketRacoon

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    You definitely sound like you're nonbinary. Here's a chart that includes a load of different identities outside of male/female: Transgender Teen Survival Guide • i hope this is better (i stole my mum

    There are lots of different labels you can use, and the definitions tend to vary from person to person. There are lots of videos on YouTube (as well as other sites) that can help explain different gender identities.
     
  5. Delta

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    I felt so much better when I started identifying as nonbinary, because for two years before that I'd add "kind of..." under my breath when I had to tell someone I was a girl. Being "kind of a girl" was okay, I guess, but it always felt like a little bit of a lie. Not a full lie, but only a small portion of the truth.
     
  6. Chinaski

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    Thank you for the replies! Got some questions/thoughts. I'm very new to the whole non-binary gender thing. I mean, I'm obviously not new to how I feel but I'm new to the world of non-binary. Up until a few months ago I sort of thought most people felt this way only I wasn't very good at being a woman. I really hope I don't come across as ignorant but if I do, take solace in the fact that I want to learn. Would really appreciate if you could help me understand all of this.

    1. If someone asked me "are you a girl or a boy?" (which would never happen because even though I don't dress particularly feminine, my stupid breasts give me away), I would say that I'm a girl. I don't feel like that would be a lie. Unlike Delta I don't add "kind of..." under my breath. It's just that I never think of myself as a woman. I know I am a woman and I know I look like a woman but in my mind it's not that simple. Does that still make me non-binary?

    2. I feel like it would be a lie to say that I identify as male. Again, it's not that "simple". I hardly ever think of what gender I am because it is of no importance to me. Well, it's important but I just am who I am. Do you know what I mean?

    3. Most people don't feel this way, do they?

    4. Out of the non-binary genders I've read about I seem to fit agender/genderless the most. But I'm really not sure.

    5. I still wish I was a boy sometimes. If I could just snap my fingers and have the opportunity to change my biological sex I'd change in a heartbeat. I don't identify as transgender though. Is that "normal" for someone who's non-binary? Also, how do I know I'm not "just" a tomboy?

    Hope it's OK I ask so many questions.
     
    #6 Chinaski, Mar 10, 2016
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  7. Aberrance

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    Theyre some good questions and honestly I'd say time is what's going to help you most, it took me a year and a half from when I started questioning my identity to deciding which gender I was. For me it was a difficult process too.

    I think it's the first paragraph that you need to focus on. What is it you mean by 'I know I am a woman' when you think differently? Looking like a woman definitely doesn't mean anything. Its how you feel. Do you feel like a woman? Do you feel comfortable with people using she/her pronouns to describe you? Are you happy with your body? If you could see yourself in 5 years time, what would you see, ideally?

    You have to stop comparing yourself to others. Gender is very individual, especially non-binary genders, no two people are going to experience their gender the same way. I would have said agender would fit the way you feel too from what you've said. About just being a tomboy, you have to think about how you feel. The difference between being a tomboy and bring trans* is that tomboys identify as women, they feel comfortable with their body and how society percieve them as being female. Trans people don't. There's no rush for you to figure out your identity straight away. Take your time.
     
  8. Chinaski

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    I don't know if I feel like a woman. I don't think I do, but I'm not sure. I don't think I feel like anything or I might feel like a mixture of man and woman. Though I don't feel like a man either. Argh, this is all very confusing and very difficult to explain.

    I'm comfortable with people using she/her pronouns but I'd be really happy if people said he/his as well (though, like I said, that would never happen because I look like a woman). I'm OK with my body, weight and breasts excluded (I really hate having breasts, or at least having large ones that make it really clear that I'm a woman).

    What do you mean (more specifically)?

    Again, I'm sorry if I come across as ignorant when I ask this but what do you mean when you say "trans people don't"? I mean, are you using the word "trans" as a kind of umbrella term for all non-binary people? Because you can be non-binary without being trans, right? Like I said, I'm new to this.
     
    #8 Chinaski, Mar 11, 2016
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  9. ConfusedBrit

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    The way I see it is that trans people are just like cis people but were assigned the wrong sex at birth (if that makes sense) but I probably wouldn't put trans as a part of non-binary (correct me if I'm wrong) - I see non-binary as a not being either of male or female whether it's a mixture of the two (androgynous, genderfluid etc.) or neither of them (agender, genderless) - hope this helps :slight_smile:
     
  10. DemiLiHue

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    1st: the gender it's not androgynous, it's androgyne.

    2nd:


    1. If someone asked me "are you a girl or a boy?" (which would never happen because even though I don't dress particularly feminine, my stupid breasts give me away), I would say that I'm a girl. I don't feel like that would be a lie. Unlike Delta I don't add "kind of..." under my breath. It's just that I never think of myself as a woman. I know I am a woman and I know I look like a woman but in my mind it's not that simple. Does that still make me non-binary?
    If you mean you know you are a woman but you don't feel like it, yes. When I changed my name I was really anxious and every time I closed my eyes I literally heard people calling and shouting me by my first name. Think how you feel when people call u that.

    2. I feel like it would be a lie to say that I identify as male. Again, it's not that "simple". I hardly ever think of what gender I am because it is of no importance to me. Well, it's important but I just am who I am. Do you know what I mean?
    Nope. Haha ok, but as your thread name states, you are not a guy. You're either female or androgyne
    3. Most people don't feel this way, do they?
    Nonbinary people are less than 1% of population
    4. Out of the non-binary genders I've read about I seem to fit agender/genderless the most. But I'm really not sure.
    That's interesting. What does this word mean to u?
    5. I still wish I was a boy sometimes. If I could just snap my fingers and have the opportunity to change my biological sex I'd change in a heartbeat. I don't identify as transgender though. Is that "normal" for someone who's non-binary? Also, how do I know I'm not "just" a tomboy?
    1-it's kinda normal. For an AFAB NB they'd love to look like a guy, while an AMAB NB would love to look like a girl
    2- do you feel like a girl?
     
  11. Aberrance

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    If you start changing your gender expression e.g. wearing more masculine style clothing, binding your chest, etc. you might get a better feel for what's comfortable for you. I mean you might look like a woman now but you've got the ability to change that to make you feel happier with the way you present and how others percieve you. Also, there is 'third gender' which is not male nor female and completely seperate from the binary as well as everything else on the spectrum. Personally I don't know much about it but that might be something worth researching in your case?

    As in, when you look in the mirror, how is it that you want to look. That was a pretty big deciding factor for me becaue I realised I want to see myself looking like a guy in the future. I couldn't stand to see myself age the way I look now and grow to look feminine.

    Personally I use the term trans* for any person who identifies as anything other than their designated birth sex so yeah I'd class non-binary genders under trans, when I was identifying as non-binary I would still class myself as trans because I still wasn't cis. Some people just use non-binary and don't label themselves as trans but it's entirely up to you which label you choose.
     
  12. Nike007

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    Hello. I identify as androgyne. Androgynous is how you dress and/or look. I dress androgynously, but look 85% female. Surprisenly, even with my D size breasts, people would confuse my gender.

    A way to look at it, is if you are okay being called she/her. For me, I am okay with it, not super strong about it. I don't want to be called he/him. That's just how I am, though i identify more masculine than being feminine.

    Another thing I heard is it doesn't matter what to wear or do, but how you feel when you go to bed. Before you sleep, do you feel male? Female? Non-binary? I want to wear boxers and sleep, but I don't feel like a male, but wearing boxers sound cool. I wish I had courage to buy them. If I looked more androgynous and was old enough and living on my own, I would. But just because I am androgyne and want to look androgynous, doesn't mean all androgynes feel the same. Remember that. Genderless is considered a gender, but gender neutral is neutrosis. You could be one of those? The only person who can decide your gender is you, but I feel happier about myself because I found me basically. I have felt like a lost puppy since a kid, but had no words to describe my feelings, but now I do. And that should be your goal. I wish you luck :slight_smile:.
     
  13. Chinaski

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    So the gender identity is androgyne and androgynous is how you dress? And being androgyne means you (the person who identifies as androgyne) feels both male and female? Again, sorry, I'm new to this. I'm just trying to understand. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    I'm okay being called she/her. I'm never called he/him (except for when I was 9 or 10 and that made me really happy) and that's fine too. I don't think I'd mind being called he/him though. Anyway, I don't need people to call me gender neutral pronouns. She/her is fine.

    I never think about how I feel about my gender when I go to bed. I'm just me. If I had to think about it I probably couldn't tell you whether I feel male or female. Probably neither.

    Genderless seems to fit the most so far. Not completely sure about the difference between genderless and gender neutral to be honest.

    ---------- Post added 12th Mar 2016 at 07:47 AM ----------

    What the word agender/genderless means to me? Its definition. Without gender. Someone who feels like they don't have a particular gender.

    What does NB mean? I know what AFAB/AMAB means (thank you, Google) but I'm not sure about NB.

    Seriously, this is all very difficult. It's very difficult to explain how I feel and how to really understand what all the different non-binary genders actually mean. I find it difficult to separate the way I look (like a woman) and feel (not necessarily like a woman). I mean, I know I don't really feel like a woman but since I look like one I kind of assume that's what I am. Do I feel like a woman? No, not really. Do I feel like a man? No, not really.

    The only things I really feel like I want to change when it comes to my body is my weight and my breasts. If I could choose how to look in 5 years time, I'd want to be thinner and I'd want to have gone through some sort of breast reduction. I don't like having breasts. I don't know why because most people seem to love it, but I hate it.
     
  14. Nike007

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    Androgyne is the gender identity and androgynous is how you dress, correct. Some people would say how you look could fit under androgynous. And yes, for me, I feel both female and male simultaneously. I don't have two different genders at different times, I have the feelings at the same time.

    Hmm. That's interesting. A lot (not all) of non-binary or transgender or transsexual people don't like the gender defined at birth. They want to change it to either the other binary pronoun or a neutral one like they.

    If you think genderless is your gender (agender) then that's your gender. You don't have to be one or the other binary gender. It's not male or female. It's a lot more than that.

    Genderless is when you feel like you don't have a gender while gender neutral is you still have a gender, but don't really mind binary or non-binary genders. So you're neutral about it.
     
  15. Delta

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    There is also demi- as an option. Definitely a female gender, but not nearly as much of it as people would expect. I feel like the more different options there are for self description, the more we can understand each other and be understood.