Okey, so I'm confused. I think I finally found the right way to ask this question. Initially I thought I must be a lesbian and I fit into the stereotype quite neatly. But there is one big but. I'm primarily into men. Seriously, everyone thinks I'm a lesbian :/ It's a matter of my gender expression - or identity, not orientation. I swagger, wear my pants low, I act like a dude a lot. As a child and later a teen, I made a really wierd girl, and still make not the most widespread kind of woman. I've been identifying as transgender for a month or two, and looked into genderqueer earlier on, but the variety of people out there who identify in so many ways, doing the same as I do and having the same life story - makes me question it. Part of my acting like a dude is unconscious and part - deliberate performance in order to communicate to people around me that I don't and won't take on the feminine role or identify with it. I also don't identify with women usually, and identify with men - alive people, not fictional characters. In fiction I identify with women more, especially action heorines. Don't get me wrong, I've had unpleasant experiences with people perceiving me as someone who I'm not and expecting me to act in ways that are unnatural to me ALL THE TIME. I prefer to state right away what I'm up to or not. Is this gender identity, expression or something else? What is this called? I do not identify with transgender narratives or stories, probably only vaguely. I don't want to transition. I identify with my female body and have very high opinion on it (unusually high as for a woman...). I feel at home in it, even though it used not to be the case for 3 years or so in my early teens. I just don't feel at home in this society or the feminine role. ---------- Post added 21st Mar 2016 at 12:26 PM ---------- I have no problem saying I'm a woman, girl, a female, a she. I do have a problem saying I'm a man, boy, a male, because, like, I'm female, physically. He - I don't have a problem with this. He implies a state of mind, a kind of person, and I believe I am a he. I don't bother with passing either way.
If you don't identify with transgender narratives, male pronouns (or even neutral) then you are what is called a GNC (gender non-conformist) cisgender person. Gender roles are absolute shit, most people find them sexist and limiting, and many reject them all together. Of course you can choose to use the label genderqueer as well, but not all women can fit in a feminine box.
It's not entirely roles, I think it's inborn. It's majority versus minority kind of thing. I know many cool women who reject traditional gender roles and are being who they are, but I don't identify with them either, I don't identify with what's inside their heads still. Pronouns are a non-issue for me, but I don't like the idea of calling people by their biological sex in the first place. I don't want to seem like making fuss, but I think that the idea is insane. As if genitals mattered that much. It's gross. ---------- Post added 21st Mar 2016 at 12:52 PM ---------- Gendered language makes me uncomfortable.
When it comes to body. I don't know. My feelings are completely mixed. I'm more than fine with my body. Transition... Seems appealing in a wierd way - in the same way as sex with a handsone stranger. May seem attractive but I don't really think it's a good idea. I feel like - muscles, great. I work out to have muscles to feel good about myself anyway. But taking steroids... :S Any kind of intervention into a healthy body doesn't seem a good idea to me. I don't suffer from any acute discomfort on the point of my body and don't see why I should. I have mixed feelings about body hair and negative feelings about balding. I do not have problems convincing people I'm a guy, even when I look like the most female person on this planet. I like my boobs and don't care about them in a way. Several people have pointed me out that I look as if I was trying to hide them, but I don't try to. Consciously. I wear regular bras. And more masculine clothing. Similarily, several people have pointed me out that some of my habits are wierd. Like standing when I pee, sitting like I had a dick, walking like I had a dick, Freudian mistakes when I speak that hint on my non-existing (or a couple milimeters long) dick. I never really questioned that I stand when I pee. I learnt to do it SO early and never really thought about it. It seemed to be a good idea, because I stent a lot of time outdoors. In a sense... I don't really feel as if I would become any more male though transition than I already am. I feel as if I already was a man, if anything. I don't feel that I would prefer to be born in a different body. Life would for sure be easier, but I wouldn't be more male, or less female. I think the question of being born in a different body is nonsense because I never was. This already is a masculine body, no matter what it looks like. In between the legs - I'm really oblivious. Something is severely wired wrong there. I have this instincts out of nowhere to penetrate. I have phantom sensations since I was a child. I don't do anything about it. I would be curious how it would be like to actually have a penis, but not curious enough to do surgeries or pack. My level of curiousity ends on strap-ons. The whole giving birth thing and pregnancy, breastfeeding - I'm not happy about it at all, but life is what it is. I'm not depressed about it either. All in all, I think it's better for me to stay female, because I don't want balding, high blood pressure, more body hair and a stronger smell. My body is fine. I would prefer narrower hips, but I can pull those off too. My body is already androgynous, because I work out since I hit puberty. I don't know if it's normal for cisgender girls to work out in order to grow taller when 14. Or to want to be stronger. I have no problem walking around topless (another wierd habit) - I don't know if that's normal either. The sight of me in boxers only might be wierd to some people but who cares? I just feel as if my chest... Was just a chest. Just a human chest. I realise that many people don't think about boobs this way and interpret them differently, but I see them as glands on my chest and nothing more. If other people want to change thier bodies - fine. But I don't see where it would get me, where it would advance me, what it would change. I'm so confused about it all. I might have a slight degree of bottom dysphoria because I'm marginally disgusted by my vagina. I have nothing against vaginas in general, but mine feels a bit yuck. I can't explain why. But I don't think that it's an issue for me. I do not get this all. Really. ---------- Post added 21st Mar 2016 at 03:19 PM ---------- It doesn't make it easier to solve this riddle that I like feminine clothing. Dress-up, pampering and fashion is pretty much the only thing I like from femininty. And it makes everyone think I make a girly girl.
Hello. I know you have a lot of difficulty with this topic. Could you be a demiboy or demigirl. Here is a definition I found online: Demiboy: Someone partly a boy, and partly something else, without defining that other part. Demigirl: Someone partly a girl, and partly something else, without defining that other part. This may be what you are experiencing. I don't know which one you feel, or you could be both, but this seems like a good definition to you. I wish you luck .
First off, your gender expression (the way you present yourself in regards to gender) and your interests don't determine your gender at all. Being stereotypically feminine does not mean automatically mean you're a girl. This isn't meant to tell you what gender you are; however, confusing gender expression, stereotypes, and gender identity isn't going to help you figure out your gender at all. Now that that's out of the way, let's get on to what you originally posted. By what you said right there (the part I'm quoting), I have a feeling that you're not cis, for multiple reasons I'll explain. The truth is that physically transitioning will not change someone's gender. And let's say, a trans guy having surgeries and taking hormones. That isn't going to be what makes makes him a guy. He already is a guy, no matter what his body is like. And if you do indeed identify as male, it's true that do anything medically won't make you any more male than you are. Transitioning physically has to do with making your outside match your inside, and if you feel that the current state of your body is ideal, you have no obligations to change it. Not having extreme dysphoria doesn't mean you're cis. I second what you said about your body being masculine no matter what it looks like. I've heard from other trans guys (although I'm sure there are transmasculine non-binary people that feel the same way) about having a phantom limb, most notably a phantom penis. That sounds like what you've been experiencing. This isn't something cis girls experience. I remember working out to try and grow taller and get stronger, and I still do that today. I did it because those were characteristics that are traditionally considered to be masculine and I wanted to have a body that was traditionally considered to be masculine as well. I started doing this before I figured out my gender. Of course, cis girls can work out too, nothing wrong with that. However, their intentions are different; they not doing it with the intentions of wanting a more "male" body. Examining why you're doing these things will be helpful. Look at things this way, what would be your most ideal state? Gender euphoria, the euphoria from having your gender be validated, can be even more telling of your gender than dysphoria. Did you like it when people saw you as male? What gender do you want people to perceive you as, if this was an ideal world where you will be accepted either way? If you can pick and choose what your body looks like without any negative consequences or unwanted things that go along with having certain body parts/traits/characteristics, what would it be like? And finally, there are genders other than those that fit into the male/female binary. You can feel like both, neither, sometimes one of them and sometimes another, partially one, and that's only a tiny fraction of them. Hope this helps.
Nike, I'll anwser tomorrow. I really don't know. All sorts of memories come up to me recently. For example my mom telling me "Why can't you dress more like a girl?" Obvioulsy, gender roles was made up patriarchical bs to me when I was 12. Not girly, I wore jewelry, glitter etc. Like a girl. This is the way she phrased it. It was about my collection of t-shirts with prints and my combat pants. With a really exaggerated belt. They had pockets, come on And were holding on well. Later, she told me the same about buying a leather jacket I still have. Black leather. And about combat boots. Or the jewelry I buy. I bought men's jewelry by mistale often, now I'm at least doing it consciously. People tell me I'm rough but... It doesn't neccesarily mean anything I guess. I always had long hair and loved it so I have always been girly. Bit I can't resist the impression that I was and am pulling off more of a metalhead look than being a tomboy. But again - I know several girls who pulled off exactly the same look. People told me to sit like a girl and my mom taught me how to move like a girl. She actually had to teach me that. But again - is that normal or not? Quite many girls dont move too gracefully or girly. This is what I mean by making a wierd girl. I could sculpt, draw, shoot an arch and fight bare handed, climb trees, do bike tricks, build amazing castles out of sand or blocks, but I couldn't learn how to play with dolls or what is so fun about it. But it doesn't neccesarily mean anything either. Duuuuuh ---------- Post added 21st Mar 2016 at 04:38 PM ---------- Why I work out is to feel good about myself and to rise my self-esteem. Because I asses my body in terms of fitness. ---------- Post added 21st Mar 2016 at 04:42 PM ---------- For my body to serve well my purposes. It seems so obvious why that I don't even understand. Because being tall and strong seems to have a value on its own to me, because it enables things that are important and interesting to me.
So although I do not work out in order to appear more masculine, my clothing and style choices often have that purpose. The more it marks me as a guy, the better. It's difficult, because I take an issue with the careless appearance that is quite popular. I feel like a fraud when someone thinks I'm cis male. I am female, but I take a bit of an issue with people seeing me as "a girl" but mostly because of the social component of that, which I don't like. The assumed ways of thinking and acting. This is why. It has nothing to do with my body. There is something very odd about me in that respect, I don't get on with other women. I mean, I get on, but I don't understand. "You're female but you're basically a guy" is the right perception in my opinion, and I was super happy when one of my friends had that conclusion. He also sees that as a third gender and I was happy about that too. I think that would be ideal. If I could pick and choose I would be an androgynous male. I would choose not to put up with the whole female reproduction, I would choose smaller butt and being male between the legs. I still would prefer not much body hair, I still would choose not to bald, and not too heavy of a silhouette. But it's not available in any way. For me being a female (physically) is rather something I have to put up with than something I enjoy. But it has its upsides like nice hair, less acne (I still have a lot), less body hair, a silhouette that is not too heavy. I'm confusing myself. My gender issues look like a superposition of a couple of things...
I really would prefer to have been born male. Same mind, different body. I would actually enjoy it. But... it's not an issue for me. It doesn't affect me, people around me don't have an issue with it either. What I do have an issue with is social roles and assumed ways of thinking. I also have an issue with this society equating your physical appearance and esthetic preferences with what you have on the inside. I think the two are closely related, because it is nothing but my personality/way of thinking that induces the first thing. ---------- Post added 22nd Mar 2016 at 12:14 AM ---------- @Nike: I still have no idea...
Helped! I know. I have some degree of happiness from both, but I think I'm leaning to the masculine side. So... I'm non-binary. And more of a trans man than a cis woman, but both. Maybe the woman side is demi. The man side is definitely "full". Thank you for help!
I would just add that I am very much into a lot of the typically "guy" stuff, perhaps not too much competitive sports, but a lot of other things - be it interest in weapons or mechanical stuff. I never identify with "feminine" women, I would rather idolize Ellen Ripley if anything And most of my celebrity idols happen to be male. Point is, in spite of stereotypes I feel that quite clearly I feel female, or more precisely, not male to the point of desiring transition. And while I'm not trying to tell you what your gender is, I just want to show you that there are trans people such as myself that do not fit expression wise into typical male/female spectrum. Which means, your being trans or not is more in those feelings that you would be happier if you were born into male body, and not about wearing combat pants. Of course gender expression is related to identify and it is wise to see those stark differences between what is typical and not, however the final judgement is more of an inner sense of self and comfort with how you are perceived. Like, if you only feel happy when you put effort to present as male, that would be a good indication of not being cis.
Yep, so I have two separate issues with gender. One with expression, and apart from that I'm also trans. So being trans comes up as this discomfort every time someone talks about making babies or as the feeling when I want to penetrate and don't have a penis, or as body envy Hm, I didn't even realise I was feeling that. And the rest - is expression. In my head the two seemed so interwined.
Question: do you think you are female in some way, even if it's a little bit, or none at all? I read that you would an androgynous (androgyne?) male, or did I read that wrong? You can be that too! You don't need to be "one gender". You can be more than one mixed in. I can't tell you whom you are, but can give you advice and definitions on terms. But your expression =/= your gender. You can be female and dress manly and be a man and dress womanly. Hope this kinda helps .
I have no idea. I can't wrap my head around it. The situations I'm describing were not isolated cases. They were and are repetitive. There is always someone who either tells me to behave more feminine or concludes that I'm a lesbian, a dude, trans... I don't know what that is, but with aid of just clothing, I become very gender-bending, even with long hair, make-up on and everything from women's section. Maybe that's something about what I say or how I move. I have no idea what that is. And I can't separate it all in my head into inward/outward. There are things I was and am doing that are definitely outward, purely aesthetic, practical or imposed by others. But most of what I'm describing in this thread - is not. I was thinking about this, and the way I describe it and you don't understand it is that I don't think before I act. Feel -> see in your head -> do. As simple as that. I don't overthink AT ALL. I just go and do. Which makes it difficult to actually know what I feel. And that might be difficult to understand if you give stuff second thought. I do not understand what it means to present as a gender. And I'm quitting questioning with no conclusion. Now. Whatever. I am a dude. I'm living a farily normal life. I live everything a lad needs to live and that makes boys happy. I happen to be a female. I have a problem with people trying to make me into something I'm not, because of my genitalia and their narrow views. I am a simple, normal, average guy with a feminine side, who has the bad luck to also like dressing feminine/androgynous, and to be gay - which many people think makes you a girl. But it doesn't mean I'm a girl, everyone has a feminine and a masculine side, which they may want or need to express. I'm done. The end. No need to dwell. Non-binary. Binary. Also no need to separate it. ---------- Post added 24th Mar 2016 at 07:40 AM ---------- There seems to be a mismatch in terms and in understanding all over the place
