Using gender neutral language

Sir was a gender neutral name meaning ''of highest rank'' in the Army before women were dropped - but since women are now able to go back into the Army - perhaps this could be used as GN again.

Sir and Dame, used in the UK by the Queen, is the gendered form of ''Knight'' so you could use that, but that's really in the context of having an MBE etc.

If you are going to be knowing the person for a long time, you could just ask what they'd prefer.

 

http://nonbinary.org/wiki/Gender_neutral_language

I usually just say "guys" but that's not very formal. If you're talking to a group you could say 'all' as in "hello all!"

 

I wish more people would do this >.< I just avoid using gendered language like sir or ma'am, ladies, girls, boys, gentlemen, etc. "Guys" is appropriate in most situations these days. Or "ya'll" lol.

---------- Post added 3rd Jun 2016 at 10:56 AM ----------

Also I have a genderfluid friend who uses gender neutral "they" for everyone unless they say they prefer gendered pronouns, such in the case of binary transfolk. I've started doing this sometimes as well.

 

When I was in the SCA, they would address a group of people as "gentles" as in, "Good gentles, the feast is served." That might do for a bit more formal occasion where, "hey guys" just doesn't do it. They/their works for gender neutral individual pronouns, but can be cumbersome since people will initially assume you're speaking about more than one person. For being an ungendered language (as in nouns don't have gender like in French or Spanish), English has a lot of gendered terminology...

I tend to ask people what pronouns they prefer if I have any doubt at all, then go with that.

Hope that helps even a little...

Morgana

 

"Guys" is both gendered and very informal. I tend to use "folks", which isn't good for really formal situations but is sufficiently respectful to be used in many cases.

Honestly, there aren't a whole lot of gender neutral substitutions for Mr./Ms. or ma'am/sir that don't sound awkward or strange. Gendering language in situations like that is kinda unavoidable.

 

I do this all the time.

I STARTED doing this truthfully though because I seem to always forget peoples names.

 

Its difficult to remove all gendered language when referring to people. I often use they if I'm talking about someone who I'm not sure of pronouns. I make a conscious effort not to use the term 'guys' around any trans people DMAB but otherwise that's a generic term for addressing people. My dad shouts 'kids' when calling to my sister and I, rather than 'girls' so kids is a good one to get into the habit of like you said. I don't think it should be made into a massive deal though, unfortunately gendered language is unavoidable at the moment because gender neutral terms are so unknown that you can't really use them in everyday situations.

 

I think I tend to leave out gendered nouns when possible. Instead of, "Good morning, ma'am/sir," I'll just say, "Good morning."

For myself, obviously I'm more comfortable using terms like "kid" or "person", and will use "they/them/their" in cases where the other person's gender isn't known, or they prefer those pronouns.

 

I would just simply say "Excuse me" and eliminate sir or ma'am

 

Just shout Or pat them on the shoulder. That's what people do about me.

 

The Uk uses "Mx." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mx_(title))

However, this may seem strange to use.

 

When possible in more professional situations you could use an alternative descriptor or their job title:
"Their teacher said..."
"The manager is..."
Etc.
I've also started myself trying to practice that in my thoughts to, like if I think "that man..." I'll try to think that person instead. Better way of thinking, plus it's more practice for when you want to speak more gender neutrally to others.

 

Didn't Abraham Lincoln once use, "Fellow Citizens?"

This is not a hard and fast rule. If you know a woman in the south (where I'm not from--I'm a Yankee) who is traditional that way, I don't see anything wrong with addressing her as "Ma'am." Nor is it inappropriate to refer to a female Senator charing a committee as the "Chairwoman."

Then again, in groups of people with fluid gender roles and indeterminate situations, your observations pose thought-provoking questions. We should realize that not being gratuitously offensive is our goal. And that is somewhat different than being "politically correct," although it is a similar way to state the same.

 

I like "folks" and "y'all" but they're hardly formal. I think English might lack a common way of addressing a group of people formally while also being neutral. Time to make "folks" formal!

 

I don't think cis people have any idea how hurtful it is to be called "ma'am/sir" when you are trans (if it is the wrong one). So I am just really glad to know that at least one person is trying to be more aware of this. I'm not a huge fan of political correctness in general, but if you can avoid making one person feel borderline suicidal for a few hours, then I would think it would be worth it to just cut gendered language out of our vocabulary as much as possible. It has gotten to the point where I avoid going anywhere "formal" because they are the ones that say "ma'am" and "ladies" more than anyone and it just...eats away at you.

That being said, it might not be as big of a deal if you are referring to someone who is clearly identifying with their sex, but why do people look at me in all men's clothes with a men's haircut and feel the need to remind me of my sex every fifteen minutes?? But at the same time, who knows what anyone is thinking even if they seem conforming.

Totally not arguing your post or attacking your opinion btw. Just adding my two cents. I think you are right in general and especially when you say the goal is to not be gratuitously offensive.

 

Thanks for responding to my post. One thing all the brouhaha about bathrooms has done for me is to provoke some thought about the generally invisible among us who may be hurt by things we say out of custom. At first, I thought it was almost beside the point, as I long have studied the youth suicide rate and have been appalled at the loss of life, so the political campaign on "bathrooms" I thought might not have much real impact on the greater problem.

Now I'm not so sure at all. During this period I have read first person accounts of how this impacts people, not only here but also in various media outlets. Some of the stories contained things that, frankly I had never thought of. And I'm someone who isn't exactly hiding from unusual human behaviors and traits and in denial.

So in reading your comment, and taking into consideration a lot of things I've recently discovered, I realize that it is not nearly as obvious as it seems what gender identification random people on the street may have, nor what kinds of feelings they may have from historically ordinary interactions.

I'll bet a lot of open-minded, ordinary people, have found out things they never thought of, in these last couple of months.