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Bathroom Dilemma

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Secrets5, Jul 28, 2016.

  1. Secrets5

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    Hello,

    So I'm going to a party tomorrow night and I'm not sure which bathrooms I can use. My presentation most people will see me as what I was assigned at birth, but some people [not sure how many are going] at the party will know I'm truely agender. So I don't think they'd be comfortable with me in the assigned bathroom since they know. Even if they were okay with it, I'm having trouble people with seeing me as agender so they might think me going into the assigned one invalidates what I really am. I'm non-binary so I also can't go into the opposite assigned bathroom, and I probably am not read as such by others so wouldn't want to make them uncomfortable. I could also go into the disabled bathroom, but for the people there who don't know I'm agender they might think I'm going somewhere that I'm not allowed [since I don't have a disability that would permit me using those toilets]. Note that this party is going on from 7:30 pm to about the same time the following morning, and we will be drinking, so not going is probably not an option. So I'm just wondering what else I could do? It seems like an awkward question to ask on the night, especially to those who don't know me [and are most likely drunk so wouldn't remember their answer - and their real answer might be opposite to the one they tell me since they're drunk]?

    My other option is to leave at 12:00 midnight, but I'm not sure what the etiquette for leaving this kind of party early is [although nobody who knows me would be surprised if I left early, and the ''kind'' of party is to get drunk - which I'm not sure I'll be doing.]

    So perhaps just some help on what to do in this situation. Thank-you.
     
  2. Aberrance

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    In all honesty, when people are drinking they give even less of a shit than when they're sober. In a pub when I'm drunk as well as 90% of all people there is where I'm most comfortable using the male toilets (loos of my choice). Peoples visions are blurry and they're having enough of a hard time coordinating their feet and their heads than worrying about what's around them, let alone the gender of the people in the loo with them.

    Basically the tip for peeing when drinking is hold it for as long as you can. 'Break the seal' only when it's completely necessary. If you pee too early you'll be going every 10 minutes and it's annoying as hell. So start drinking slowly, wait until everyone's getting a bit tipsy and then get on the drinks and let yourself go. Use disabled ones, no one's going to care (unless people are using them to have sex so if you're interrupting they might care). Etiquette for leaving is whenever you want. Usually you'd say bye to the host (if there is one) and just leave, people have lives and things to do. If you want to leave theyre going to understand. Try not to think about it too much and just enjoy yourself, this is a good chance to socialise and have a good time. Don't let the toilet problem ruin that.
     
    #2 Aberrance, Jul 28, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2016
  3. I AM MEOW

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    I have a genderfluid friend who chooses which restroom to use by coin toss (unless they are having a specifically gendered day).
     
  4. Rickystarr

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    I have a friend who transitioned to male several years ago, taking T and getting top surgery and everything, who now identifies as some sort of non binary (not really sure their exact identity. We haven't really talked about it and I'm not even out to them yet.) and they used the mens' bathroom from when they started passing to when they started identifying more as nonbinary. Now they sometimes will wear blatantly female clothes with heels and skirts and everything (which they never even did before they transitioned, so it is a little strange lol), and now they are uncomfortable with bathrooms again. What they usually do is get someone who is obviously the "right" gender to go into the bathroom they feel most comfortable with them. Just find a bathroom buddy. No one will question or fuck with you if you walk in with someone that obviously belongs there. They would often use me as an escort into the women's bathroom despite the fact that I am uncomfortable there as well and we actually look kind of silly walking in there together, them looking like a drag queen and me only seeming female when I speak, but people are much less likely to question you if you are with someone. They probably wouldn't question you anyway to e honest, especially in a place where people are drinking, but having someone with you should definitely ease your fears.

    ---------- Post added 29th Jul 2016 at 12:23 AM ----------

    And if that doesn't seem like an option, just go to the women's if that is what you will likely be read as. It doesn't matter. You just gotta piss.
     
  5. Jiramanau

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    My philosophy on bathrooms is to use the one you look like you belong in at first glance, unless you're making a point and don't care what anyone says or you're with people who don't care where you pee. That said, drunk at a party where everyone is drinking is a good place to try if you want to. If anyone makes a fuss just give them a little Johnny Depp, say "are you sure this is the wrong bathroom?" but stay calm and go about your business. Save the "I'm agender" conversation for when you're done, people get territorial about this issue, or are territorial about bathrooms, and you don't want to trigger argumentative responses while inside that disputed space.
    Warning: ranting ahead! You said you were having trouble explaining 'agender' to people, and I love discussing trans issues with people because I believe it's the best way to create the changes that will let us be free. I hope the OP will find something helpful in my thoughts.

    It's not foolproof, but I've seen some pretty closed minded people open up to the idea of "transgenderism" (to me it's not an ism it's just life) when you avoid talking about labels and bathrooms and instead start with biology, how chromosomes simply control hormones instead of directly controlling fetal development and all the variation that system produces. Usually they get it because it fits into what they learned in school, even if they don't understand exactly. Then I get into biological/genetic behavior and how the conscious mind is unaware of the brain's functions and how most behavior has a biological root, which I then link back to transgender and intersex people and Viola, I've just convinced a racist old lady that transgender people have a legitimate biological condition that deserves consideration. And that's really the important part, IMHO. Once they stop saying we're crazy, the argument becomes how to deal with it. You shouldn't be surprised if they just can't understand why transition or using a certain bathroom or whatever is easier than conforming and hiding, but sometimes you can still get them to take it on faith by explaining it in simple terms like "people treat men and women differently and expect certain responses. for me, meeting those expectations is difficult and stressful. It comes naturally to you, but I have to constantly suppress my real feelings and calculate my responses based on other people's expectations, because the way they treat me is based on what they see. Presenting myself as the gender I feel inside is about telling people how to interact with me so that I can just be myself without confusing people".

    For explaining why trans people belong in bathrooms that match their gender identity, I point out safety first: "I understand that you're worried that a trans person might assault you in the bathroom some day, but compare that to a trans*woman going into a men's room knowing that she is over 10x more likely to be raped/assaulted than a cis-woman and EVERY person in that men's room is a potential attacker. Don't you think that a trans person's immediate and very real safety situation is more important than your concern about a hypothetical threat that has never occurred in reality? And if I look female and people call me "ma'am", why would I go into a men's room anyway? Isn't the whole point of gendered bathrooms to make prudish people comfortable?" I've seen this approach work better with women than with men, women understand the fear of male strangers and feeling vulnerable in certain spaces. Men tend to think of how you can defend yourself rather than avoiding the problem.
    If your cis friend is still talking to you, by now they've probably at least admitted that the bathroom issue is more complicated than they realized. You can't tell people how to think, but usually knocking them off their high horse and getting them to realize that we are real people who are just trying to find some peace and happiness and live our lives is enough to prevent alot of violence and discrimination. We have to be understanding of people's ignorance and choose to be the best of humanity, to lift people out of ignorance instead of blaming them for being who they are, if we want the world to really accept and include us. Otherwise we'll still be arguing about bathrooms 25 years from now.

    I'm not exactly sure how to explain agender, I identify as non-binary which is easy for me to explain as "I have a female brain and gender identity but don't feel like that qualifies me as a 'woman'. I feel like womanhood involves a specific set of struggles and challenges that must be overcome that I was never presented with and I don't need to adopt that label. I just want to be seen for who I am. I'm a she, if only because I'm not a he or an it. beyond that I don't care if you call me girl or transwoman or 'one of god's own prototypes', just don't call me he, mister, man or bro. " See how I just established exactly where my identity lies without directly threatening a cis-person's sense of identity? I'm keeping the issue from threatening their "gender territory"as much as possible, keeping the conversation focused on where I fit in the gender spectrum and why they should respect that. I'd suggest to anyone who's coming out that they think about the best ways of explaining their gender identity to cis people who have no experience with a real trans person. Everything about how ignorant people respond depends on how you explain things, you have to think about the ideas they need to accept in order to accept your identity and how to build that foundation quickly.
     
    #5 Jiramanau, Jul 30, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2016