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Faux Queens

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by bunnydee, Jan 1, 2017.

  1. bunnydee

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    Are they becoming more acceptable within LGBTIQ?

    What I have read most are perceived as highly feminist and mainstream Drag Queen have issues with them.

    I am wondering simply because in my journey of accepting myself, I am questioning everything about myself to learn more. I recognize I was born female and am lesbian, but I have since age 8 seen myself as a male drag queen. Even growing up, I wanted to be like Ru Paul, Vida, Lady Bunny... I didn't just admire them, they are who I wanted to be.
    It has nothing to do with my sexual orientation, just how I see myself.

    I beginning to see how this can sound complicated and confusing. Sexually I feel female lesbian, but the male drag queen resonates with me of who I am.
     
  2. anthracite

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    To acceptance: I see drag as a weird kind of art. So I don't give a fuck at all. Do your thing, you're not hurting anyone and as far as I see, these people have insane make up skills.
     
  3. SHACH

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    Drag's a certain art, performance and style. I feel like anyone should be allowed to use that style. I suppose it could be seen as a sort of cultural appropriation of the gay male and trans female (I mean, in the way that Paris is Burning consisted both of gay male drag queens, and trans women who were in the scene) culture... but I think cultural appropriation is only problematic when you take the thing you like and then pretend not to be associated with the original scene. Like, since I mentioned Paris is Burning (I watched it a few weeks ago if you can tell), at the end of the film where the gay black male choreographers and performers think that they can bring vogueing to the world... but then the queen of vogueing becomes Madonna, and there is no reference to vogueing's origins. I'm pretty sure as a lesbian you're not trying to hide the queer past of drag haha.

    I dunno why I got so deep into that...
     
  4. bunnydee

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    Thanks for the responses.

    No not trying to hide the queer past of drag at all. I actually remember watching that movie in the 90's along with some other favs I have of drag. I'll have to watch it again. I don't know the why of why I relate to it so much. Even though I am happy with my sex as female and gender as female, I guess part of me has just always longed to be a gay male so I could be a drag queen. Then when Fauxnique won in 2015 I was like well if a cisgender could be a drag queen, why can't I?
     
  5. EverDeer

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    The thing about gender identity versus gender expression, which includes drag as a performance, is you don't need to be anything to put on a mask or a costume and act some kind of way. I think for many women, it makes sense that being supremely feminine or doing feminine "drag" like a gay man / drag queen would feel like a costume- because at the end of the day, it is, no matter if you are a man, woman, gay, straight, trans, etc. However, I believe part of the reason it is treated in such a gender/sexuality-oriented taboo "art" exclusive to gay men is because of how we view gender roles differently in men and women and treat people differently due to it. In a way, its saying a man cannot continue to be a man when he is so supremely feminine-- that's why some people believe that some drag comes off as a bit appropriating of trans identities, seeing how some drag queens do see their feminine persona as an extension of themselves and only use feminine pronouns when in drag, etc. ... because society accepts drag as an extension of ones identity and will respect men using feminine pronouns because they "look like women" but won't accept non cis-passing transgender women in regular society... getting into whether or not this is somehow all connected to some kind of transphobia or gender-role enforcing just sort of feels like a contrived mouthful of politics to swallow though, so I'm not sure I have any further input on the issue... just, costumes and roleplay are costumes and roleplay whether your gender matters or not, I don't think it should go much further than that.
     
  6. bunnydee

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    I guess that is what I am questioning now. This whole thing of accepting myself as lesbian has me delving into other areas of myself. I have never seen it as a costume, but part of my true self - the 'male' drag queen. I never saw or envisioned myself as female in drag which I am trying to figure out what that means and the why.

    It may just be that once I allowed myself to open the door questioning and accepting my sexuality which I am absolutely sure I am attracted in every way to women only, other doors opened to allow myself to start questioning the gender. I guess I am acknowledging that part of me when younger allowed myself to see myself as male. So I am questioning it as I am today. I don't know tired and just overthinking things....
     
  7. EverDeer

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    Ah okay, I understand what you mean now. When you're with other women though, do you still see yourself as a woman as well though? And when you're with other men / feel like a man you relate with drag queens because you see yourself as a man who "wears drag" because you still dress in a feminine way? It can be especially confusing when your identity changes and can be affected by who you're around; I've done this before since I relate equally to both men and women.
    I'm sorry if my first post seemed to come off as a bit skeptical or doubtful at first, I think it's because during this process it's important to be able to differentiate between between how you may need to relearn to view gender expression based on gender roles taught at a young age, and actual gender identity (I.e. The difference between femininity vs female and masculinity vs male, etc.) which can be quite confusing at first, so it's okay to have doubts, don't just immediately write yourself off as overthinking it :slight_smile:

    I suppose my experience is just the opposite of yours, I've never been able to figure out my sexuality until I understood how to feel comfortable around other people / how I feel and who I relate to. So I just sort of toss that whole idea of sexuality out the window hahah... sometimes I feel more like a woman with other women, sometimes I feel like a man with other women, mostly I guess a gay man, sometimes a woman with men....it just sort of muddles figuring out how I feel internally so I just try and think about it from a personal, private standpoint, as though no one else is around.
     
    #7 EverDeer, Jan 3, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
  8. bunnydee

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    This is what I have been dwelling on and it is very confusing to me.
    When I was young up until my 30's I had the body of a young Gwyneth Paltrow. Thin and beautiful by straight male societal standards. I hated myself in every way back then. I did not want that body. For me it was to mannish.

    Today my body to me is more feminine. I have curves and resemble Sara Ramirez and I am so much happier with my body this way. But while my body is now feminine to me, my personality/thoughts/mind has always been what is seen as the more masculine type comparative to other women or at least that is what men have told me.

    With women, I have actually seen myself as both the male and female personality at different times. This I feel is normal as all of us have characteristics both feminine and masculine. I am at ease and can be comfortably vulnerable or submissive, and strong or dominant.

    With men, I hid from my thoughts and was nothing, otherwise I felt victimized. Even being consensual, it felt wrong as most feel being raped. In the act of sex, unless drunk I would be submissive. No, to my knowledge I have never been raped and have discussed this with counselors in depth.

    If I am honest with myself, when younger I did visually masturbate thinking of myself as a man and felt the non-existent penis. I visualized myself in my same body with a penis in daily life. I haven't had these thoughts since my husband and I married. My husband is different than any straight man I have known. With him there is no pressure to be any way. He has feminine characteristics that complement my more dominant personality. I also recently have been debating that he himself may be closet gay which could be why I feel differently with him than I have with other men.

    After writing this and reading it, I am beginning to think it may have been my subconscious fighting to show me I was a lesbian and may not have anything to do with gender. Maybe the fantasy of being a male drag queen was a way to express my feminine personality when I did not feel female at a time when I thought my body resembled a males when younger. The fantasies of a male appendage during this time could also have been a way to get me to see myself as something other than straight. As I was with men, in the societal norm it went against the norms to be gay or two men together so if I saw myself as male, I could acknowledge this was wrong or not me. Or a way for my mind to convince itself I was strong enough to face the truth as I seen men as the strong masculine type. And the feeling when with a man may have been a way to tell myself being with men was going against every part of the me I am. It's all a lot to take in. But that is the past.

    Today I feel female, I accept I am only attracted to other females.
     
  9. cakepiecookie

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    Interesting. I feel somewhat the same way but always felt like a weirdo. In my head, I'm an effeminate man.

    As for being a bio queen, some regular queens accept it, some don't, some have no opinion on it either way. I see drag as a form of rebellion against expectations, so if you want to do that then don't let other people's narrow-mindedness discourage you. Find a supportive community if you can, and go for it!
     
  10. EverDeer

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    Well, I am by no means professionally able to tell you who you believe you are, but I can see how it would make sense that you would fantasize about being a boy as a child, seeing as you have now discovered that you are attracted to women because as children I feel we are not often exposed to gay culture so you may have been relating to how a straight man would act around / approach women he was attracted to when learning about relationships, since we much more commonly learn through the example of straight men approaching women, such as in movies and hearing other women's experiences, etc. Also, as for tendencies around men and women... when I am with people I am attracted to and comfortable around, I also feel androgynous in what I am able to express but that is different than my identity, which can change from day to day, man to woman to neither, etc. when I am around someone I am not comfortable around, I feel forced which can sometimes come out as "too" feminine or put-down upon, much like you also said, etc. I think this is a fairly normal trait that mostly has to do with just being comfortable expressing all of yourself...

    I think my only advice would be to think long and hard about masculinity and femininity versus your ideas of what makes a man and a woman. Strip all essence of masculinity and femininity in your brain away from the terms man and woman, and see what you are left with- what makes up your ideas of yourself and other men and women without these ideas? Another tip I read once that helped me was strip away your knowledge of masculinity and femininity altogether-- replace feminine with "receptive" and masculine with "aggressive" for example, and with each trait that you have, do you still feel like a woman? Or a man?

    As for how you perceive your body... I also have always had a very androgynous appearance. I relate to many young, male characters in movies due to how they act and look, and also see myself as more of an effeminate boy than a masculine woman. In high school, I was often made fun of for my androgynous appearance, and for years I was self conscious and falsely attributed my inability to relate to other women as simply not having a big enough chest or not being able to interact like a woman, etc. I thought this was because I was young and would outgrow my insecurity. But as I matured, I suddenly realized that all the women around me seemed to have become comfortable as women even if they weren't feminine, and regardless of my status or presentation, I hated being called a woman and having to be seen as one and being included with other women; I felt a bitterness as though this inclusion was something I would never understand, like I had spent my life learning lines for a stage play, but everyone else wasn't acting. I was only happy when I realized I didn't need to keep trying to fit in- I assumed for many years that all other women felt the way I did, and that acting/liking feminine things or talking about liking being a girl and issues that went with it was all just a facade and an act put on for society.
     
    #10 EverDeer, Jan 4, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  11. bunnydee

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    KipperTheDeer,

    Thank you so much. That helps me put a lot of things into perspective. My life history is making more sense to me each day as I delve into all of this. I think coming here and talking to everyone has had more value than all the $$$ spent on counselors. You my friend, are wise beyond your years. I wish you all the best in this life.
     
  12. EverDeer

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    Thank you, I wish you luck in your self discovery, awareness, and happiness as well <3