There was this Kinsey scale post in regular chitchat that got me thinking. If I answer it it from the perspective on my biological body I think I am either a 4 or 4.5. If I answer it from the point on my mind's gender it is a 1.5 or 2. The thing is that, so far, while I am still in this body, I haven't allowed myself M&M (mmm.. candy ) relationships, that for an outside eye would be gay (strictly physically speaking). I did fantasize plenty about men though, but couldn't act on it in the physical world . In each of the fantasies I was a woman and most of them were about passionate, but regular sex. Never did I naturally gravitate towards anal sex fantasy, except if it was a fantasy that involved threesomes. In real life I only clicked with women who were in fact quite masculine, strong and independent in their attitude towards life. That brings on the question: are my trans thoughts a way to reconcile gayness with internalized homophobia ? Of course my gut feeling tells me " no effin' way, your mind was always feminine, you wanted to also be a girl physically before you even knew what sex was" . But at the same time, years of therapy have taught me that our subconscious can trick us so, I have to admit that I could be wrong. How do I realize if there is or not a part of my subconscious saying : "Well If I like to be cute and pretty, to receive, and not to penetrate, to nurture and not to conquer, then I should be a woman, and I should want the body to fit the part." And then I saw here a thread listing a hypothetical situation: "If you were to be alone on an non-dangerous island, for the rest of your life, and noone would come there, noone else can see you, but you would get to pick the body, what body would you pick ?" And without blinking I know I'd chose girl. IS that enough to go on ? Now on the psychology side, the following argument could also be made given the answer above. So because I I love so much the female form and I think it is just the best, is it a narcissistic impulse on my side to also want to have the body of a woman all alone on that island , because then I'd have what I want with me always? Good question. But is it narcissistic really? Because, island aside, I know that if I'd get that body I would so love to occasionally wear provocative clothing and get men interested in me sexually. I look in my heart and know I would like to be possessed, and dominated and feel lust for my body from my loving partner, I'm not wanting that not just play with myself. So if there is any form of narcissism involved in this desire for a different body, it is not the pathological kind, but the the "healthy" dose, the one that tells you that is normal to be in a way where you can love yourself. or at least to not hate yourself. Then what is there? What is the engine driving me towards this? Is it the hate I felt for males in general in my early childhood, because of my abusive father (that made me think that being male is about being violent and insensitive) that pushes me away from being okay with having a male body, because if I do, then it must mean I am like him? Or is it the fact that I had always tried to comfort my depressive mother after episodes of my father being abusive, trying to convince her to stay with us, that killing herself as she said to us she might do, is not the answer and that we need her around (was doing that at around 7 years of age ) so because I wasn't sure that she's be around, I had to copy somehow her femininity and placed it inside my mind as a safety so that I would always have my mother figure with me, had she killed herself back then? Or was it the fact that she had always wished me to have been a daughter instead of a son, for her to have someone to connect with in the abusive environment she had been forced in? (my mother and father are in a family-arranged marriage and my mother was not happy with her folks about this). Was this so important to her for the second born to be a daughter after the first born in our family ( my older brother) had been a boy? Was it so important for her for me to be a girl so that desire influenced the hormone balance during the pregnancy when my brain was developing? Was it also the fact that she also told me this, that the second child they wished was supposed to be a girl, explicitly during my early childhood, even though she added after that she loves me just as much anyway ? What the heck is the cause ? And why do I need to figure it out and can't just accept it? Would figuring out the cause make me want this any less? Would these thoughts of having the wrong body stop then, and could I be happy in my own skin, in a regular relationship and a traditional family? Am I wondering all these because I am terrified of the health and social implications of transitioning this late in life ? Am I overthinking it ? ( Probably) . Sorry for the rant, I had to put these thoughts in writing ---------- Post added 4th Jan 2017 at 01:27 PM ---------- Damn it, by writing these I remembered many of the times when I tried to comfort my mother some 30 years ago and the way I would do it was that I would give her these long hugs when she was crying and I would always hope that somehow my embrace would make her feel better even if I didn't know what to say. Then I look at the handle I picked for this forum when i made the account a few days ago and go to pieces. :/
Personally I don't think that 'the cause' matters at all. You feel the way you feel and I don't think that knowing what caused you to feel this way will change that. I think you should do what makes you feel happy and more like yourself and if you feel like your outside doesn't match your inside, I don't see why you shouldn't take steps towards transitioning if that's what you think will make you feel better. Questioning and doubting how/why you feel the way you do is completely normal, maybe if you could try experimenting with different clothing styles or test out different pronouns to see how it makes you feel you might get a better sense of what makes you more comfortable. Figuring out who you are on the inside always takes a lot of time and I don't believe any amount of questioning can give you a straight answer in a short space of time. It took me a really long time and a lot of questioning until I finally felt like I understood my gender identity. I don't think giving it some more time is ever a bad idea. I feel like distancing yourself from all the questions (which I know can be very difficult) can also be very helpful. I obviously can't tell you what to do or who you are since it's your life and that's all up to you, however, personally I think following your gut feeling (even though that may be hard to find) is the way to go when it comes to figuring out how you feel. Keep in mind that it's also totally ok to change your mind, just because you might feel like you identify with a certain gender one day doesn't mean you aren't allowed to reconsider or change your mind, the next. But I think that over time how you feel and what you find most comfortable to identify as will slowly become clear. Hope I could at least help a little
@MulticolouredSox Thank you for reading through it, and for the nice words. It does indeed help @antracite Thank you so much. For some reason though I keep circling back to also finding out why I am the way I am. The why seems important for some reason. Mainly because I need to believe that if find out the why I can figure out how to function in this body without taking life threatening steps (from long term medical causes but more from social nonacceptance, which is much worse here than in US), or without losing my job (over here the job pool is very limited for transgender folks and there's very little in terms of law actually protecting us against discrimination, quite the opposite, there was a petition recently to change the constitution so it is more disadvantageous to LGBT people). Maybe I should try and compromise and and look for strict top gay guy who could love me as I am now? I can try act a bit more masculine too if he would want me to, just as long as he does not want me to use my dick I think i could pull it off. I mean, I've worn the dude mask for so long now at work and when dealing with local officials so I have gotten somewhat good at it, and in this case I would be putting it on halfway only at home. But this way I cold still keep my job, and could walk the streets without fearing for my life (which would otherwise definitely happen mid-transition). Maybe I'm just lying to myself, and after spending all these years in relationships with masculine women that was doomed to fail, only to have my hearth broken, I'm gonna have to do some of it again in relationships with gay guys before I realise transitioning was the only good answer all along. .. ...Sigh... Will figure it out.. somehow .
I do think narcissism can sometimes be linked to transition and I do think the cause absolutely matters. It is about what kind of problems transition is solving for you. Some people solve their problems by cutting, smoking, binging and drinking. Sometimes the solution just creates more problems. Sometimes we can use temporary solutions to cover up for a lack of internal love. Either way, labels are not important. Why not try experimenting with men? You will know best if you really like it or not by trying and seeing how it feels. That's not something you can figure out all in your thoughts.
Thank you for replying and sharing your experience, it is *very* much appreciated. Indeed experimenting with men pre transition is the trajectory that I see myself entering now. But i am not comfortable doing it in this body which is too "regular dude" now, a look "cultivated" to fit the ex wife's expectations. She didn't like me when as much I was too skinny or when I was getting rid of my body hair. Now I can do that again. Before that I need to take better care of myself, eat better, cut all sugar from my diet, hit the gym more intensely for a month or two, (i'm pretty fit though abs are not as visible as I like at this point, so need to lose that layer of fat... the break up was very stressful and I did a lot of stress eating :/), take better care of my manicure and pedicure, . Maybe will get my looks to be a bit more androgynous (as much as possible without seeming suspicious ). Maybe use some very very Very light makeup. Then maybe I'll be mentally ready to seek relationships with men. Would the above actually work against me finding a gay boyfriend I wonder though... Do they generally look for more masculine men though? If dysphoria gets too bad maybe I'll do something that is a bit more ambivalent, such as a rhinoplasty to make the nose smaller and cuter... I can get away with that I think without being judged. I'll just tell people I had an accident. Eh, lots of things to plan for.
WarmEmbrace: Don't worry about your safety. You can always be stealth. I plan to do it too and I'm a paranoid fella so feel free to write on my profile page. We might get some useful strategies for each other.
That sounds awesome! I'm not sure how I would go about going stealth transitioning in my thirties when i interact with so many people that have known me for 10+ years each day... but I guess I can always learn. I know that it seems it takes me a quite while to deliberate if I should do something but if I decide I'm gonna do do it, then things are locked in place, I go in 110% and don't hold back no matter what. From that point there can be no hesitation, on it is either go big or go home. As they say "If you want to take the the fucking island, burn your fucking boats". No retreat, no surrender . So when I'm gonna go in a gay relationship , I'm gonna give it my all with the last fibre of my body and mind. I'll build myself into the absolute best gay submissive boyfriend everyone could ever dream of, body and mind. I'm gonna be the cheekiest most sensual, warm, loving, naughty give-the-best-head-and-send-my-boyfriend-to-the-moon-each-morning-as-a-wake-up-call kind of boyfriend. I'm gonna make sure they get to live all their wildest fantasies (sexual or otherwise) if it is in my power. And then I'll bake cookies. Damn it felt so good typing that .
What each person is attracted to is very much individual preference. Just look for a connection and go with what feels right!
Will try, but it is tricky . In personal relations, I always tend to want to try and mould myself after what I know (or guess) the others desire or expect of me, just to make them happy. What I want tends to matter less. I know logically it is not right or healthy, but on some level I can't seem to be able to help it :/. But I have to change that, because obviously so far trying this hard to please others didn't work out too great for me , did it ? DD
Well, WarmEmbrace, I went through many of the same identity issues when I first started to come out as transgender. I was told that it was due to all the years of abuse during my childhood, and having naturally low testosterone. I took me many years to get to where I am today. Full time as a Trans woman for the last two years and three years on HRT therapy. Even now I sometimes have doubts, we all do, but I am still happier now than I was the whole forty years prior to starting my transition. I spent many years trying to find out the reasons why I was this way. I even survived 18 months of hellish reparative therapy, and it still failed to stop my desire to be who I am now. We each need to take the time to be who we are meant to be. Sometimes, there are now right or wrong reasons. It just is. I hope that helps.
One question that crossed my mind when reading your description of yourself as the ideal gay boyfriend is, is that really you or just a mask you plan on wearing to satisfy your future boyfriend? That's really what it comes down to. It's easy to play a part, mold ourselves to be the person other people want us to be but doing so comes at a cost because to do so we have to give up on feeling a true connection to our bodies and are forced to live through others because we lack any true sense of identity. Earlier in life, when I was still considering finding a partner, I had similar thoughts about how to get there, I would become the ideal partner, find a good job and build up a great body. These thoughts came from a place of emptiness and disconnect. I had no sense of who I was so I tried to construct a narrative that would fill up that emptiness with what I believed should be there. Yet, it never worked, it just increased my feeling of disconnect as the narratives never felt right. Years later, realizing that I was trans helped me underdtand a bit better the psychological needs that had guided me years earlier. However, acceptance brought with it something else, I felt connected and whole. As if I could truly see myself for the first time in such a long time. Transitioning is not at its heart about taking on feminine behavior or changing your body in various ways to fit some image of femininity. It is more about finding your true self, coming out of the shell and showing the world who you've always been inside. (*hug*)
Yeah, in your thirties it is harder a bit. You need to get more paperwork done and break a lot more of contacts. And then rebuild anything from scratch. On the other hand you have better chances that your older relatives will get dementia or die soon. As sick as it sounds, I'm depending on that.
Thank you so much Rachyl, yes, yes it does help. I was warned against trying to go through reparative therapy, I cannot even imagine how hard 18 months of it could have been *hug*. So happy you are better now. But you give me hope. I just turned 38 myself, so it looks like a similar path for me . I almost started the transition at 32, but delayed it 6 more years as I thought I had finally found the love of my life, and she strictly forbade me to do it and since I have this unhealthy obsession of being obedient and pleasing others and doing what it is asked of me, even if it makes me miserable, i went along with it. Now that the relationship is over (one of the core issues being because I was miserable) I am left with regret for not going with my gut feeling six years ago. I don't know. You may very well be right. It might be just a different mask. I don't know for sure. Thank you so much for these lines. Maybe I needed them in order to stop wasting time. Maybe my only hesitation with starting the transition, and and this experimentation with a gay man is just so I could keep the male body as a hiding place. Maybe I fear too much. Maybe fear is holding me back. Fear that I might get killed by trans-phobia, or maybe I cling too hard to the job that I know I would lose by initiating the transition. A gay experimentation does not feel ideal yes, but have never tried it, and maybe it can be enough? It is a lot easier to be stealth as gay, in an accepting society. Maybe I've hidden in the fake male identity so much and for so long, that I need to completely utterly unequivocally destroy it in order force me to step out as myself in the world, and the gay experimentation part is a latch ditch attempt to hold on to it. I don't know yet. But thank you Eveline so much for the insights (*hug*) I remember that when i saw the movie "The Danish Girl" I would uncontrollably cry when she took the actual decision to start the transition, when she boarded the train. My ex didn't really get why I was crying there. But I could see all so clearly the moment she had given up on the her former male self identity ever manifested. When she had given up up on all what it might have been or what paintings might have further created, and decided that from that moment on, she was the more important one. I don't know how to explain it. but i imagine it has to feel in a way like having a stillborn child. There was a part of you that was supposed to grow and manifest and make you feel wholesome and happy, but never did. I don't know how to explain it. Imagine a dinner table. Like, you hold this fancy dinner and laid the plates, and you are the host. And invite your whole family over. Mother, father, all the relatives. They aren't really there for you though . They are there for a fancy guest that's supposed to sit at the head of the table. And you set everything up all nice and dandy .And you wait .. and he's not showing up.. and you wait some more... and you fidget. And you tell yourself. He's gonna come. He's gonna come and then everyone will have a marvelous time, and everything is gonna be better and I can stop feeling guilty. I can hide in corner and that guest will be whatever this family wanted. They are all waiting for this honoured guest to appear at the table. And time passes and it is abvious the guest is not gonna manifest itself. and you family is looking at you accusingly. maybe you didn't send out the invitation. Did you do everything so that he would come? And you have to accept and he is not going to come. And to take the plates off the table. That . That is the moment. when you realize you have to give up of the guest that never came, and that was supposed to help you make sense of it all. That darned mental male identity that never manifested itself. I hate it. I hate you my missing male self. Why didn't you ever manifest ? Why did you leave me alone here to figure it all out? Do you have any idea how hard it all was ? I am getting ready to give up on you and everything you might have been. From now on it is I who is more important. I'm not sving the seat for you anymore. I will sit at the head of the table, and this is MY body from now on! :bang:
