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On gender

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Space Cat, Jan 13, 2017.

  1. Space Cat

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    I wrote this several months ago on another site and wanted to share it here...

    (I'm sure I could've worded some things a little better, but I wrote this late at night when I was feeling very dysphoric and didn't quite care enough to read over it.)

    What are your thoughts?
     
  2. Mihael

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    I don't think that the concepts of cis and trans would completely go away but I think it's the future. I thought of something similar.
     
  3. Irisviel

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    Sex is a biological function, or rather, it is distinguished and defined through that. Gender is a manifestation of how both (two) sexes evolved to best perform their respective functions, hence we have men and women with all their differences, some subtle some not so much. And then there are anomalies such as trans people.

    Intersex people do not confratdict the existence of two sexes. "All genders" means two, because gender is, by definition, and by logical extension of Darwinian perspective, a manifestation of a given sex's traits. Anomalous individuals do not contest biology, they are part of it.
    If you ask for thoughts, mine are such that an anti science approach a detrimental to all of us and serves no-one.

    Most people are not "they" and genderless. Most people very clearly fit their physiological bodies and very clearly display mental characteristics of their sex. A tiny minority that doesn't is not in any way a proof that it isn't so.
    Also, clothes... the way people want to dress, and people who are somewhat different in terms of preferences but still happy with their physicality, they are just cis.
     
  4. Creativemind

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    Gonna have to agree with Irisviel.

    Sex is a biological fact and not a social construct like some people think it is. Intersex people do exist, but they are a variation of the existing sex biology. You can be XXX or XXY for example, but never XOZ or POX as those chromosomes do not exist. And you can never have anything other than a penis or vagina, although they might mix together. However, most intersex people still fit the physical sex binary aside from minor stuff like different chromosomes and an enlarged clitoris, so even true cases are rare. Think of it like having six fingers. You CAN be born that way, you are valid, you exist, and are not wrong for it. But that doesn't mean that having five fingers is a social construct since it exists in biology and fact, no matter how you identify.

    Social construct = Socially created and would never be found in the animal kingdom. Sex is still found in the animal kingdom and is a part of sexual reproduction.

    Gender is a bit of a social construct however, or at least gender roles. The whole dresses and make-up are for girls is made up. Men can like those things if they wanted to and it doesn't have to make them a different gender or sex. We'd be a happier society if we stopped gendering those things.
     
  5. Irisviel

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    Gender expectations are a product of culture, is what I would say. That you are *expected* to behave in a certain way. That is wrong for every individual who doesn't fit the majority and I strongly support freedom of choice in this regard. Stil, gender roles... well most people just want to e that way. It's not socially constructed that women on AVERAGE prefer somewhat dominant male partners, that men on AVERAGE are more competitive, that we on average differ in various traits, although not in a black and white sense, it's more subtle than it sounds but still exists.
     
  6. Creativemind

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    That's why I said stuff like dresses and make-up. If you go back in ancient history, you will see men wearing dresses (or least outfits that resemble dress cloth) and make-up. Just not today.

    However, I DO agree that some gender roles are biological, like the fact that men are more aggressive and jealous, since that has to actually do with testosterone and evolution. What I meant by gender roles being "made up" has more to do with actual physical objects that wouldn't have been found in ancient history (or would have applied to different genders at the time).

    For example, I am female, but I am pretty aggressive due to higher than average testosterone hormones during birth. That doesn't mean the fact that other women crying more and being more passive are made up roles, just that there was different hormone production at birth.

    The only thing I don't like seeing is when a lot of people define their gender off of weird roles like dresses, make-up, hoodies, playing with cars, etc. Most people of both genders have some feminine and masculine traits.