1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

So... gender identity.

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Naos210, Jan 14, 2017.

  1. Naos210

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2017
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    California
    I'm... well, I don't know. I already made a post about my sexuality, and really it's something I did notice... I kind of wish I was an androgynous female. I'm attracted to the same thing I want to be. I know, wishing is different from feeling, but I feel more like a tomboy than I do a male. My interests, my voice doesn't match up. I even have to pitch my voice down. It's embarrassing to have a higher-pitched voice than my younger brother (he's barely 14). And my body... because I'm a little skinnier than I should be (5'7.5'', while being only about 115 pounds), my stomach does squeeze in slightly around that area, which is more of a female trait. I've always wanted to shave my legs and arms and such. I don't really like body hair. I don't like facial hair either. I don't feel masculine enough to be male, but not feminine enough to be female. I also have to look down, and... just having that feels awkward. I kind of think it would be easier for me to be female. A friend of mine, she said that if I crossdressed, I could be convincing if I tried. I didn't quite like that she said that. Because of my more higher pitched voice, I'm able to hit higher notes while singing, and my teacher joked in front of the other boys that I didn't have testicles (it still bothers me). But, I wouldn't want to wear dresses or skirts (maybe I'd try though). When I was younger, I was told I wasn't a man, not man enough, or some gay slur, even from people like my father. I know my questioning could be because of societal influences and how I grew up.

    I know that people can't say for me whether I'm transgender, or just "cis" or "normal", but... even if I were to transition to being female, I'd likely still wear "masculine" clothing. I often wear formal clothing - slacks, dress shirts and shoes, etc. If I'm a little lazier, I'd wear jeans and a hoodie/jacket. I'd still dress like this, so transitioning wouldn't be much different huh?

    Sorry if this seems like a ramble. Kind of is, it's all over the place. I'd appreciate any support and I give gratitude in advance.
     
  2. rebelAssassin

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Sexual Orientation:
    Questioning
    Out Status:
    A few people
    As far as I know, not all people that transition MtF begin to wear feminine clothing. I know many cis girls that would happily wear male clothes, and do. My best friend is adamant that she's gonna wear a tux to prom. Shaving your arms and legs does sound somewhat trans to me, but since I'm not transgender myself, I can't say for certain. And your lower parts, I'm not sure how to address that issue, because those aren't my parts. And the not feeling masculine or feminine enough... Have you considered that you might be agender? It's not something I know much about, but you may want to research it. Hope this advice is at least a bit helpful!
    As for the teacher, I wouldn't worry too much about them, a lot of people are dicks. I think it's really cool that you sing higher pitched than most boys, you could sing lots of female-written songs and nail them. Can you hit falsetto?
     
  3. Naos210

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2017
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    California
    Well, I know swimmers often shave their body hair, male or female. That aside, I'm not sure what science says on being agender, so I can't really apply that to my life at the moment. People can be agender or non-binary, I allow people to live their lives how they want. However, I cannot take the mantle of something like that myself until it's confirmed it's scientifically valid. Just my opinion on that. But I will look into it. I always had the thought process of "oh, I have a penis, I'm a boy", so I should have facial hair, like cars and sports, etc. But, I don't. I shave, I like theatre, acting, music, and I'd like to know how to cook.

    On the matter of singing, all males can use the falsetto range (though tenors like me can go higher using it than baritones and basses). If you can hit female notes in the chest voice, you're considered a countertenor, or male alto. What you're likely referring to is the whistle register, which is higher than the falsetto register and often only accessible by females, and no, I cannot go there despite trying.

    Thank you for the reply. I appreciate it.
     
  4. i am just me

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    83
    Location:
    Earth
    Gender:
    Genderqueer
    Gender Pronoun:
    They
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Hi Naos :slight_smile:

    I can relate to a lot of what you are saying. Gender can be extremly confusing. Maybe it helps if you ask yourself how you want to be seen by others or how you would like your body to be if you lived on a deserted island with no one to judge you.

    If you feel strange about your body, that's an indicator that you might be trans. As rebel was saying, you might also want to identify as some nonbinary identity. I know it's easier to say than to do, but my advice is not to try to hard to find a label for yourself. Labels exist to help you figure out who you are. They exist for you, not the other way around.

    What you are writing about here is mainly things that are considered more masculine or more feminine in our society. In the end, they are not what defines who you are. You can be a man who likes cooking as well as a woman who likes cars and sports. It's about what you feel on the inside not what things others want certain genders to do.

    I hope that was at least slightly helpful. Good luck with figuring things out. If you have more questions, feel free to ask.

    Quinn
     
  5. Cailan

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Messages:
    292
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Gender:
    Other
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Transgender is a spectrum, NOT a binary, even though that's the public perception, and the perception of the majority of transgender individuals who ARE binary. It's not either-or, and there are many shades of gray in between. However, we non-binary individuals (bi-gender, genderfluid, genderqueer, agender, etc). Also, bi-gender doesn't also mean just male-female binary. It can also be male-agender, or female-agender, or other variations.

    And not every transwoman wants to wear traditional women's clothing. Not even close. Those who "dress" and wear makeup, etc, are simply the most visible, and therefore the most known to the public. My husband is transitioning MtF and has zero interest in "women's clothes." He's not comfortable with skirts or flowery things. His vision of being female is women's jeans, plaid shirts and women's boots. None of which would be particularly noticeable unless you're looking closely at the cuts and styles. So no, not everyone who transitions switches to ladies' clothing. Just like not every CIS woman likes to wear skirts - many live in jeans and t-shirts and tennies their whole lives.

    And no I'm not misgendering him. He is still going by masculine pronouns at this time, and isn't sure he'll want to change pronouns and begin openly living as a woman, even after he has breasts. He wants to be female inside, to have breasts and get rid of his testes (he's trying to find a doc to schedule an orchiectomy ASAP), but doesn't really seem to want to transition much fashion-wise, except for growing his hair long and styling (already done). If and when he wants to change pronouns, he said he will tell me.

    Similarly, I'm non-binary (both female and male) and would love to continue living as a female on the outside most of the time, male as needed for my psyche to be happy, and have a penis AND a vagina (technically possible for FtM bottom surgery, even if the penis from that particular surgery is rather small).
     
  6. Irisviel

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2015
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    EU
    well contrary to pseudoscience, gender is not a spectrum, just as biological sex is not a spectrum. Former is a manifestation of the latter, and being transgender is an unfortunate anomaly, just like being intersex is. Claims stated as facts that it's not this way are based in ideology, and believing otherwise is not just some public misperception, it's the state of knowledge.
    I would also refrain from trying to explore unfounded identitues as you yourself have a hunch not to do. All it might do to you is prolong your questioning phase. If you feel wrong about your body, it won't go away because you say you're agender or androgyne or any other label that keep popping up and even their creators cannot define them properly.

    I don't think clothes or desire to be a masculine woman have anything to do with being transgender, or a woman in general. Being a woman is more about how you function, how you respond to mental stimuli, how you are emotionally... and how you also feel sexually, how you see yourself in a relationship. And it's not about being too/bottom either. I can find being a top really hot, with a man or a woman... for as long as I am and am seen as a woman. Being transgender is so much more about the little things in life rather than the big ones. It just becomes a big problem because the small things build up - the discomfort while dating, feeling fake when you try to be one of the guys, feeling wrong when you can't express yourself in a man's way but you know you would be able to if you were a woman... feeling like things would be easier as a woman make sense too, because that might indicate you are generally uncomfortable being a man. To me that's best described as strain to be a man, relief to be a woman.
    And, of course, body. Now body is nuanced, and also often more about the little things rather than some profound hatred for it. And often more in the realm of imaginary relief when you imagine it to be a female body, rather than deep distaste...although people who go as far as self harm are not unheard of. Point is, body issues are an important and very telling part of gender dysphoria, but can't be looked at without mental aspects took into account.

    Of course, and also quite sadly, you need to judge that for yourself, or even better, with a therapist if you can. It's important, so visiting a professional is worth it, just to be sure. From what you write, you don't seem fixated on be gender roles and clothing, but more on your inner workings... which could be telling. But, there isn't enough that you wrote really.

    Maybe ask yourself, or even if you want, post here what your thoughts are, on what it means to be a woman. What would be different in your life... what things you could do that you can't now, and why doing them as a man feels wrong? How would you see yourself in a relationship, why being a woman would make it more natural to function in a society? I'm not forming exact questions here, I'm more pointing to a direction where you 1)imagine if you transitioned perfectly, like you wanted, and how do you imagine that would benefit you as opposed to now 2) what are the feelings, things about you that make you think being a woman "fits". And answering "I feel like a woman" isn't good enough, no such thing exists. It's just a simplification that people use to name more or less the collected ideas in my "questions".

    And with that, I hope it helps a little to find more ground to work on, when it comes to your internal cis vs trans dilemma.
     
    #6 Irisviel, Jan 15, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017
  7. Cailan

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Messages:
    292
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Gender:
    Other
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Great, thanks for erasing my existance. And the DSM-5, and the many thousands of bi-gender, genderfluid, and agender individuals out there. I appreciate the thought.
     
  8. Hats

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2015
    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    39
    Location:
    Neverland
    Gender:
    Other
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    You may find it helpful to think about why some of the things you’ve mentioned make you uncomfortable. For example, I don’t like facial or body hair either. When I’m male, it’s a bit annoying, but when I’m female it’s aggravating because facial and body hair prevents other people perceiving me as female.

    Why not?

    Yes, I feel this too when I’m more of an equal mix of male and female.

    I think physical transition is a bigger deal than simply what clothes you wear.
     
  9. Naos210

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2017
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    California
    Well, to be honest, I'd feel more freedom to do whatever I want. Women are often more accepted for going against gender and societal roles than men are. I relate more to females than I do males. I know "feel like a woman" isn't good enough, but often, if I'm in a group full of males (doesn't often happen, but it does), I feel like the "female" of the group. People often say I'm just an effeminate male, but I feel it goes deeper. Just saying I'm more feminine than other guys doesn't feel like enough. I would go see a professional, but I haven't even been to a doctor for several years. I'm in my last year of high school, and the last time I went to a doctor was in middle school. This could be just insecurities though. I feel I never fit in anywhere. Due to being mixed, I can't fit in with any racial groups. Because of my interests, I can't get along with males too well. I feel ostracized in my family and friend groups all the time. And on the matter of relationships... it's difficult. My attempts have led to nothing but failure, so I'm not even thinking too much about it. I'm on a hiatus of even trying anymore.
     
  10. Naos210

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2017
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    California
    Because, saying I can convincingly crossdress feels like it emasculates me (me being biologically male as I am). I just don't like facial hair for the way it feels, same with body hair, I actually find it a bit gross.

    I understand that. I know it's different, but people often change their clothes.

    Like I said, I'm not too comfortable with non-binary identities, as at the moment, they are not considered valid in science. I let people live how they want, and I will accept them, but me on the other hand... I need to see the science behind it.

    Thank you. I understand that not following gender roles doesn't mean you're transgender, but I do feel, for lack of a better word, awkward for the way I am.