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Demigirl? Nonbinary? Genderqueer? Cis butch lesbian? No idea.

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by DragonsInSpace, Apr 2, 2017.

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  1. DragonsInSpace

    DragonsInSpace
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    I've always been a tomboy since I was very young. I'd wear masculine and unisex clothes the most (although it is hard to find ones that fit me as I'm very short). Two years ago I cut off my very long hair and now have a bit of an undercut because I hated having long hair. It was always up in a ponytail and was more feminine than I liked. Since that, I've become more comfortable with my appearance.

    However, people also tend to mistake me for a boy more often now. My voice is kinda low for someone who's afab - I've been told i sound like an 11 year old boy - so I'm hardly surprised, but my figure is quite curvy and unless I'm wearing like three layers of baggy clothes, that's not easy to ignore. That said, I don't mind them calling me "he", or "sir". It only bothers me if they say stuff like "oh is that your son?" to my parents as it implies I /am/ a boy. Does that makes sense? The pronouns I have no issue with, but being thought of as male doesn't seem right.

    Now, I also don't mind "she/her" being used for me. Most of the time, at least. Again, it's words like "girl", "woman" that SOMETIMES don't sit well, although I am more comfortable with them than I am with being called a man or a boy. Titles like Miss are uncomfortable for me to use too. If I had the option I would probably use Mx or something like that on forms but unfortunately that isn't the case. I have a feeling "They" would be the perfect pronoun for me to use but for some reason I can't get myself to use it, never mind anyone else. I would also feel that, by using it, I'm intruding or something incase I'm not trans.

    So in summary, I'm probably cool with any pronouns really but mostly she/her and they/them, I don't 100% feel like I have a connection to being a woman but that sometimes changes a little. I think I also experience dysphoria sometimes; I often find myself wishing I had a flat chest or, at the least, a smaller chest that can be hidden easily. I also wish I had a slightly more masculine figure too.

    Can anyone tell me what gender this sort of thing seems to describe? I know I'm not a trans man. But I can't figure out if I'm a masculine cis-woman, non-binary, agender, or what. Any advice or ideas anybody has is greatly appreciated. :slight_smile:

    It just occured to me to ask, could someone please explain what woman-aligned nonbinary means? I've seen it used here and there and it confuses me a little. If a nonbinary person is someone who is neither a man nor a woman, so how does woman-aligned or male-aligned nonbinary make sense? I don't mean to offend, just genuinely trying to learn :slight_smile:
     
    #1 DragonsInSpace, Apr 2, 2017
  2. Lacybi

    Lacybi
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    I'd say you sound nonbinary - what gender specifically can only be decided by you I'm afraid but to me demigirl, agender or genderqueer sound like they could be it.

    Woman-aligned nonbinary means someone who is nonbinary - that is someone who is not completely male all the time or completely female all the time - but associates themself more with female people than male or being in the middle. I'm a demiboy most of the time so I'd say I'm a male-aligned nonbinary person - well actually I say I'm transmasculine but that's the same thing since I'm afab. If I was a amab male-aligned nonbinary person I couldn't say I was transmasculine; the same goes for afab woman-aligned nonbinary people, they can't say they're transfeminine. However a woman-aligned amab nonbinary person could say they were transfeminine.
     
    #2 Lacybi, Apr 2, 2017
  3. Cailan

    Cailan
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    Non-binary is the umbrella term for genderqueer, demi-boy, and all the other trans terms that aren't the traditional MtF or FtM.

    Being non-binary is kind-of a pain, because it seems no two of us are alike. I'm just now starting to get a handle on mine, and I'm just as unusual as every other non-binary out there. There's no path neatly blazed and outlined for us, as the binary MtFs and FtMs have, and it's full of twists and turns. We each have to figure it out for ourselves, the weird mix of gender in our brains.

    You sound mostly genderfluid to me, with comfort at multiple different pronouns and such.

    Non-binary means not all male or all female gender. Being non-binary does *not* always mean we're evenly balanced, or don't feel associated with either male or female. I'm afab, bi-gender female and male, and the female side is generally dominant in my preference for outward presentation. Which is convenient because I don't have to worry so much about trying to pass as a man. But my male side makes living entirely as a female uncomfortable at times, and people are weirded out when I look like a woman and act like a man. When I'm in girl mode I feel entirely female, cis even. When I'm in guy mode I tend to forget I'm female on the outside. But I always go by she/her. Maybe that will change someday if I let my guy take over physically for a while, but because of physical limitations that's unlikely to happen soon.
     
    #3 Cailan, Apr 2, 2017
  4. DragonsInSpace

    DragonsInSpace
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    @Cailan Yeah I get what you mean. The fact that non-binary people are so different from each other means that how one person experiances gender won't be the same as somebody else. This kind of makes it harder to figure myself out because when I was questioning my sexuality I was able to relate to 90% of other gay people's feelings and put a reason to why I felt that way, but that isn't the case with this.

    I don't feel like genderfluid suits me though? I considered it but my gender doesn't "shift" over time? One of my friends is genderfluid and they explained it to me as feeling male one day, female another day, and sometimes neither or a mix. I don't quite feel like that though? My presentation is almost always masculine but I never consider myself a dude, I just don't have a problem with the rare occasion that he/him is used in reference to me. I prefer she/her and they/them and (almost) always feel at least a slight connection to my birth gender. The rest of it is kind of a mixture or neither male nor female.

    Haha I get what you mean about people being weirded out when you look like a girl but act more like a man. I honestly find it quite entertaining tbh, as long as they aren't rude
    Thanks for the info, it made me feel a bit more confident about myself

    ---------- Post added 3rd Apr 2017 at 06:08 AM ----------

    @Lacybi Demigirl does sound like it fits but I'm not fond of the term "girl" being in it. Like I said, being referred to as a girl makes me feel off. The term still fits quite well though, as does agender I guess, just to a lesser extent. Isn't genderqueer a sort of catch-all umbrella term?

    Ahhh, that makes sense, thank you! I relate to that a lot. I can identify more with females or woman-aligned people than men and male-aligned people. This has helped a lot, thank you!
     
    #4 DragonsInSpace, Apr 3, 2017
  5. DragonsInSpace

    DragonsInSpace
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    It might also be worth noting that I have times when I hate not having a flat chest. On those days I just wear baggy shirts and ignore it as I don't have a binder yet. I remember years ago when I went bra shopping with my mum for the first time I cried so much afterwards. I got used to it obviously but I don't always like it.
     
    #5 DragonsInSpace, Apr 3, 2017
  6. soycoffee

    soycoffee
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    I signed up just to reply, because I could've written your post word-for-word. I'm also questioning at the moment, leaning towards non-binary. I went to a gender therapist for an assessment and although she didn't really give me much information, she said she doesn't think I have gender dysphoria (in the FtM sense) so that was a relief (but I'm still not certain of where I am).

    I think perhaps something you could think about is rather than deciding on a label and then going from there, think of which bits of yourself that you like, which bits you might want to change, and then go from there.

    I'd be interested in keeping in touch if that's okay with you. Perhaps we can help each other figure things out, since our experiences are so similar.
     
    #6 soycoffee, Apr 3, 2017
  7. Cailan

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    One of the big misconceptions out there is that non-binaries don't have gender dysphoria. I certainly do, and it manifests itself in many ways. My male side is uncomfortable letting me be as femme as my female side wants to be, and my female side hates my big mannish body and feels uncomfortable in it (rather similar to MtFs!). It makes me feel out of place inside my skin most of the time and anxious over my presentation all the time. That's dysphoria. It doesn't mean you feel the need to make a full transition.

    A lot of gender therapists, heck, also traditional MtFs and FtMs, and psychiatrists, etc, have a view of non-binary as something other than "real" transgender, and not a real problem, even though it's included in DSM 5 and WPATH 7.

    My gender therapist was shocked to learn I wanted HRT for a partial transition, even after I talked about my dysphoria for more than a month. He assumed as a bi-gender afab F/M with a primary female presentation I had no such interest, but at the same time he assumed my MtF husband wants it.

    My apparently supportive/open minded primary care provider didn't even bother to put in my medical record that I'm transgender, though she did note it for my husband (we both told her during our intake when we moved to her practice). I have an appointment with her for another issue in three weeks. It should be interesting to see her reaction when I tell her I have an appointment at a gender clinic in May to start HRT. :badgrin:
     
    #7 Cailan, Apr 3, 2017
  8. soycoffee

    soycoffee
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    (I hope I'm not hijacking this thread by the way, perhaps DragonsInSpace might find this discourse useful)

    That is true, and I think I feel some dysphoria, specifically over my chest. I'm unsure whether I want to buy a binder or just try to become more comfortable with my chest. Although the idea of top surgery is somewhat appealing, I'm not considering it seriously because I think there is a very real possibility that I might like my chest again, because that has happened in the past.

    I'm attempting to lose weight so that my chest becomes flatter and my curves even out. Other than that, I don't have any other methods of transition planned.
     
    #8 soycoffee, Apr 3, 2017
  9. Cailan

    Cailan
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    I'm the same way, except my physical dysphoria is about what's missing below. I'm going on HRT specifically to grow what's missing and after Meta is done and healed, no more HRT. My only issue with my bust is it's so massively large I can't bind. I can't imagining not having breasts (my female side demands them) but I do plan (soon!) to get breast reduction surgery to get something small enough to bind.

    Similarly, weight is important! My hips are naturally man-straight, and caused me massive dysphoria when I was a teenager and thin. I gained a lot of weight and was happier because it made me more feminine looking (Gaia-round type feminine, LOL). Now I'm trying to lose it again (65 pounds down, 65 to go), so I can go both ways, like I subconsciously did as a skinny teen, but back then I was unaware I was bi-gender (hindsight is 20/20). There's padded underwear to add hips, and binders to hide a chest, so I can be whatever I want.
     
    #9 Cailan, Apr 3, 2017
  10. DragonsInSpace

    DragonsInSpace
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    @soycoffee You're not hijacking the thread don't worry! Hearing both of your experiences is helping me a bit. I can't go to a gender therapist unfortunately as I live quite far from the only one in the country, I can't drive, and my parents don't know I'm questioning. You make a good point about forgetting labels for now. I'll make a list of what I like and dislike about myself and see where that gets me.

    I feel the exact same about my chest! I want to bind because some days (like today) I hate it and wish it was flat but other days I'm cool with it and like having boobs, or I just manage to ignore it. I'm gonna cosplay at an anime con this year so at least I have an excuse to get a binder without outing myself to my parents. I feel like top surgery is too permanent because there's the days I like having boobs.
    I'm also trying to lose weight so that I'm not as curvy though. I always dislike having curves, even on the days I'm feeling more female.

    I'd love to stay in contact! It's nice to have somebody to talk to who understands exactly how you feel. I'll PM you about it.

    @Cailan Breast reduction surgery is something I'm also considering for the same reason (as well as the back pain they cause). Out of sight, out of mind tends to be how it works for me.
     
    #10 DragonsInSpace, Apr 4, 2017
  11. DragonsInSpace

    DragonsInSpace
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    UPDATE/SIDENOTE: I was talking to a friend just now who accidentally used the word "he" in reference to me (his exact words were "she -no, he - wait.." and he said he's just used to having to correct himself while talking to a mutual trans friend) but I noticed I wasn't bothered by it at all. If he hadn't corrected himself I'd have carried on without saying a thing. I don't think I'm always as comfortable with he/him being used though, only on days where I don't feel female (like today).
     
    #11 DragonsInSpace, Apr 4, 2017
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