Do you need to be "born that way" to be on the trans spectrum?

I know you didn't mean it pejoratively, but I don't think anything is "off" about transfolk.

It used to bother me when my step-mother would describe my gayness as something going "wrong" in the womb, "haywire" hormones, etc. In fact lately I am feeling less of a need to know "why" at all, because it just is.

Yes, I do think that transgender is a biological phenomenon. For me as a plain ol' gay white guy, I'm so mainstream within the LGBT community that it's easy for me to forget that biology is a strong determinant, and I just happen to be common in every other way. I'm sure that a trans person is as normal in their own biological right; they're simply less common in general society.

Patrick

 

This is very similar to how I feel. The desire to figure out if something is "off" seems to stem from two things in my experience:

1) Being able to understand something that is, and get a better understanding of this very real form of diversity in humans.
2) Being able to find blame for a "defect" so it can be "corrected", or "removed".

The problem I run into is that there is far too much of the second, and not enough of the first. And the thing is, it shouldn't matter. It is. From the perspective of society, nothing related to sexuality, gender identity, or even roles and expression should be approached with the idea that it is an abnormality that can be fixed, or excised to "protect society".

From the view of the individual, I can empathize with a need to understand why you feel the way you do. I suggest that the more important thing is how you feel though, and what would make you more comfortable. That could be shedding of gender norms if you think things are mild enough, but it could also mean something different, depending on what those feelings are and how they manifest.

 

Of course it's a medical condition. If it wasn't it would be a choice and we'd be attention whores or not on here at all. And we would have no HRT, no surgeries, because it would be seen like a nose job.

This is why I think it matters a lot to know where it comes from. For our legal stuff, against stupid prejudice and that it's not our fault.

 

I consider it a birth defect, but one that can be managed. It's inborn and because of its nature, cannot be "corrected" or "removed" in the manner of "curing" the religious right wants to cure the LGBT community. It just is. Like the kid I knew in school who was born with an arm that ended at his wrist. It didn't make him any less valuable member of the community.

However, there are some trans whom I believe became trans after trauma, usually sexual or emotional abuse. For them, perhaps there is a "cure" but really how can you tell them from a born trans person who happened to end up in an abuse situation?

I keep wondering what life would be like for all of us if our culture wasn't based on the Judeo-Christian-Islamic religion set. Like the fa'afafine (MtF) and fa'atama (FtM) of Samoa, who had a valued and respected role in their culture before the Europeans came and told them they have to be Christian and change their value set. All of this suffering wouldn't be an issue, and we wouldn't need medical transitioning. The traditional fa'afafine and fa'atama report no dysphoria and have no interest in cross-dressing, hormones or surgery because their culture already embraced their identities and created a role within, and acknowledged them from childhood. It's Western societal gender expectations and standards that set up our misery, not our bodies themselves.

---------- Post added 29th Apr 2017 at 06:33 PM ----------

Total agreement. Also, I think some trans folks want a more spiritual explanation. Medical explanations are too cold and unemotional for some folks. They want to be unique and spiritual beings in charge of their own destiny, not the reality; governed by hormones, chemicals and electrical impulses that aren't much under our control.

 

That doesn't really explain where our individual personalities come from however. As far as I know that is still largely a mystery. Which is to say that if they did find out, I haven't been told, or read about it yet.

I do feel however that I would likely still want to have a more feminine body even if we were in a more Samoa style culture.

 

This sort of rubbed me the wrong way. I do not see it as a birth defect. Saying things like "defect" implies something with wrong, that we are some how not normal, but we are. Being trans is no different from being intersex, or gay...it is just another way of being human, different but normal and not always understood because it isn't as common but it is still normal.

I also have issue with this. I am sure you know how many people use this as an argument as to how people are't trans and just suffering from the affects of past trauma.
As a person who grew up being sexually, emotionally, and physically abused I can guarantee you that I did not "becomes trans" because of my childhood, nor was my abuse the result of me being trans.

I truly being trans is a mix of many things, biology being one of the major factors and because of that I like to view being trans as being no different than being intersex.
This list the frequency of intersex birth, and really I don't think it to be as uncommon as many people might think. I believe that same is true for being trans, but we view it as uncommon because not many are willing to admit to being trans.

As for cross-dressers and drag king/queens I feel that is slightly different. Something more dealing with personality than biology, but still every bit as welcomed within the community.

 

From an evolutionary standpoint, transgender *is* "wrong and not normal." We exist only to move on to the next generation. Transgender is what happens when the process of feminization or masculinzation of the brain goes wrong during early brain growth and development, when the normal process fails. Period. The human species is a sexually dimorphic species, we have very different physical traits in both the brain and the body. Transgender is an aberration, a tiny minority of individuals within the vast population - barely more than 1 in 200 individuals. So yes, it's cold and ugly and certainly not "affirming," but it's the reality. All we can do is make the best of it.

As for the trauma thing, I said some. A few. I know one person personally for whom it is almost certainly the case, and that person is open and honest about it. But I also believe it is the minority. The evidence suggests at least 85 percent or more are "born that way," and the remainder have another cause, whether it's trauma or something else. Just because they're used as "evidence" to "cure" trans by transphobes, that doesn't mean they don't exist.

---------- Post added 30th Apr 2017 at 11:12 AM ----------

Actually it does. It's our unique mix of hormones and chemicals, mixed with our experiences. Even small babies show "personality" long before they have any cultural experiences.

As for what you would want or feel in a different culture, that's not something we would ever know. But not a single "traditional" (ie those who came before modern Westernized ideas of trans came to Samoa) ever reported wanting to change their body. It was a shocking idea to them. More shocking to them than to their cis families.

 

My personality hasn't changed since starting hormones 2 months ago. I still like the same things, I just no longer have the cloud of testosterone interfering with my emotions. What makes me, me, is on a deeper level than hormones and chemicals. So, no, it doesn't explain it.

I am a very spiritual person, and my belief is that we have our soul/spirit before we are even born. The soul/spirit is the base essence of who we are, that is my belief, and it would take more than some text on a computer screen to convince me otherwise. And to take that belief away from me would be a terrible action to take.

 

Actually, the fact that your brain works better and less clouded on testosterone simply means your brain was wired male early in your brain formation (particularly during the 11th week of pregnancy). It's exactly the thing I'm talking about. What makes your personality is how the hormones and chemicals interacted with your experiences while growing up. However, certain traits were wired into your brain early on. I personally don't believe in a soul or spirit. We are the sum parts of our bio-electro-chemical brains, plus our experiences and how those interact. Period. And science rather backs me up on this.

 

Really? I have the same experience. I mean I never took T, my own is high. And they tried to fix my health problems in this place, but my body and mind crahsed... I can't say clouded is how I felt, but I don't want to repeat this experience. Down with birth control and T blockers, lol.

 

Often when people talk about finding the "source of transness", it's to somehow find the "excuse" for it, and make it "justifiable". Like, "did you see this study? this means that trans people are real and so I should respect them now! they aren't making it up!" Which definitely rubs me the wrong way. Trans and nonbinary people should be respected regardless. (and if binary trans people are somehow biologically predisposed to their identity, then what's going on with us nonbinary people?)

I have no idea if all trans people have something unique going on in our brains or whatever to cause our feelings, but it's not something I care about, personally. And this idea doesn't take into account the fluidity of gender, either, from what I've seen at least.

 

Clearly, there are people who are trans based solely on biological factors, but I don't think there's any reason to believe that someone's upbringing can't play a role as well. We're all products of our environment.

 

I said my emotions are less blocked because I'm on Testosterone BLOCKERS. I'm MTF not FTM. A trans GIRL. I also said that my personality was unaffected, I'm still me. And did you not read that trying to take away my spirituality would be an act of cruelty?

 

I don't think it really matters whether or not someone was "born that way". The whole concept of "we're just born this way" is really condescending to me. It implies "yeah, this is a bad thing, but we can't help it!" and I hate that. Being trans isn't a bad thing. And if it's not a bad thing, why should it matter if someone was born this way, or if they developed into it later, or if they're trying to figure themselves out, etc.

Gender is a social and cultural construct, not a biological factor. It's a bunch of boxes we're thrown into before we even comprehend what it is and how it functions. Sure, some people instantly know that they've been given a box that doesn't suit them. Some people might realize that later, some people might be comfortable in their original position until later.
And you could argue that the concept of dysphoria negates that gender isn't biological, but dysphoria could easily exist in a world where gender as a social system doesn't. For example, an AMAB nonbinary person longing for a more feminine body isn't necessarily longing to be female. And an AMAB nonbinary person fully comfortable with their body isn't male, and both of these people have valid identities! Not to mention gender is a personal experience, and not everyone can even articulate their gender to the fullest. We all just choose the labels that suit us best.

I don't know. I hope that makes sense. I spent too much time trying to gather every memory and piece of information I could to "prove" that I was trans not only to others but also to MYSELF. People shouldn't have to justify their existence.

 

Would you also apply that logic to gay people? Cis gay people can't have children, are they therefore evolutionary "wrong"? I've seen a few scientists argue, that gay people do serve an evolutionary purpose, they could serve as another caretaker for children for example. You could argue in a similar fashion for the normalization of transpeople.

 

I think others think we are off and make us feel bad. We been around since forever and yet viewed as not normal. So for me everyone was born for a reason. There is no such thing as a defiect, just different. It's like telling a black guy or any color or race they dont belong. That's all it is. That's all it will ever be till people accept the fact there is no such thing as normal....

 

Oh, the old Darwinian myth of reproduction as the sole function of sexuality… when “science” has long ago proven that there are many more functions to having sex than continuing the species (establishing and maintaining relationships being the most important ones, others being stress reduction, pleasure, social status, boosting self-esteem, revenge etc. etc. etc..). And continuing the species not being the sole purpose of life…

---------- Post added 1st May 2017 at 09:12 PM ----------

One more thing, so I hopefully won't be misunderstood:
Nothing against Darwin and the theory of evolution, not at all... but it can't explain everything ("Darwin's paradox") and it's not the only science around.

---------- Post added 1st May 2017 at 09:13 PM ----------

One more thing, so I hopefully won't be misunderstood:
Nothing against Darwin and the theory of evolution, not at all... but it can't explain everything ("Darwin's paradox") and it's not the only science around.

 

Ah, but sex is not the whole of existance. Sex is indeed done for many reasons other than reproduction that go into survival of the species as a social creature, but we exist only to reproduce. Apples and oranges.

And yes, evolution explains enough, and we're discovering more every day. With each new discovery, it only confirms evolution is how we all came to be.

No myth. Science, which is the process of evidence, data, and reality. Anything else is just wishful, romantic thinking.

 

You don't need dysphoria to be trans.